Who do you support for President and why?
- Thread starter rhgunguy
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cabin pressure
New member
This topic has been proverbially beaten into pow-dah
HOWEVER, you must've known that I can't resist.
Answer: I support Ron Paul because I love the constitution in the tradition of the founding fathers, personal liberties, and state's rights, and I despise, hate, and loathe the tyrannical empire that the federal "government" has become since the constitution was effectively overthrown in 1933.
HOWEVER, you must've known that I can't resist.
Answer: I support Ron Paul because I love the constitution in the tradition of the founding fathers, personal liberties, and state's rights, and I despise, hate, and loathe the tyrannical empire that the federal "government" has become since the constitution was effectively overthrown in 1933.
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^^^^ What he said. I have no interest at all in supporting someone who doesn't understand the 2nd Amendment so that let's out Rudy, Mitt and all the democrats with the possible exception of Richardson. I don't support the continuation of the War on Terror as it is currently being run, I believe it is really a criminal matter not military. I'm also not very excited about the government eyeballing my email, phone conversations or my bedroom (even if it is kinda boring) so again most miss my personal short bus. I'm really tired of politicians telling me that they or some other government bureacracy needs to hold my hand because I can't be trusted to do the right thing on my own. Again making the list of possible candidates a short one. I want us out of the UN and to quit giving my tax dollars to other nations. I'd like our borders secured, I don't have any problem with tired, hungry masses yearning to be free coming to the US but I would like them to follow the rules to get here. I'm tired of having to pay an accountant to do my taxes and saving reciepts for 10 years just in case, I don't mind paying something for roads, defense and education, I do mind paying for subsidizing big and little businesses, the drug war, the war on poverty and commitees studying damn near everything. It looks like this election cycle I'm voting for Ron Paul, the candidate who most closely represents my views.
If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation...the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property...the banking institutions having the issuing power of money, are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies. -Thomas Jefferson
^---- Uh, this has like, happened.
^---- Uh, this has like, happened.
ajaxinacan
New member
In answer to the original question, Huckabee or (in a pinch) Romney.
With respect to defjon, banks minted their own money until the end of the 19th century. When Jefferson made his famous quote, there was a huge problem with money that could only be spent in one town, or at a few stores. In some cases, corporations minted their own money.
Jefferson, although a genius, wasn't speaking to any modern condition we would recognize (credit cards, debit cards, etc).
By the way, I haven't posted since the "old" firing line in 2002. It's good to see some familiar faces. My password still works.
With respect to defjon, banks minted their own money until the end of the 19th century. When Jefferson made his famous quote, there was a huge problem with money that could only be spent in one town, or at a few stores. In some cases, corporations minted their own money.
Jefferson, although a genius, wasn't speaking to any modern condition we would recognize (credit cards, debit cards, etc).
By the way, I haven't posted since the "old" firing line in 2002. It's good to see some familiar faces. My password still works.
Ron Paul
Sure this has been beaten to death so I'll grab the nearest soapbox to pile on.
Paul is the only viable candidate with a voting record that consistently demonstrates he would uphold the Constitution as President. I think he would structure a Supreme Court to do the same. Is that so much to ask?
Of course anyone who supports Paul is vilified as a kook, since upholding the Constitution is viewed as quaint and outdated in such an advanced society as ours that relies upon such conveniences as oil and credit cards and electronic banking.
The Constitution gave Congress the authority to "coin" money. In the very same sentence it gave Congress the authority to establish standards of weights and measures - if not for the purpose of weighing and measuring such coins to determine their value, then what? The Founders just lived through a horrible period in which failed currencies and defaults on promises to repay public debt resulted in widespread misery. Jefferson understood that printing, "minting", or other means of producing fiat money was pernicious and invited disaster. The fact that the dollar has declined about 50% against the Euro since 2000 is one recent result of the toxic effect of fiat currency. I paid $7.00 for a cup of coffee in London last month. Breakfast for four in Toronto cost me $150.00. The dollar has become so weak in the world markets that OPEC has seriously been considering selling its oil in Euros (source). Flooding the market with dollars to bail out the mortgage mess puts even more pressure on US currency (source). The rest of the world, heavily invested in US debt, will eventually want something tangible in return, such as the government of Abu Dhabi buying Citigroup (source).
The results of this mess will be felt in lowered standards of living for many years, and arguably threatens our national security. That's what I think Jefferson had in mind with his quote.
I don't know if a Ron Paul presidency can solve the problem. I am confident that he understands there is a problem though, which is more than I can say about any of the other candidates and most members of Congress. Identifying a problem is the first step toward proposing a solution. He's the only one on the House Banking Committee with enough knowledge of the situation to put Ben Bernanke in the hot seat - and make him sweat (source).
Ajaxinacan, I think the points you made are worth debating. I don't believe the concept of credit or debit cards or electronic funds could not have been explained to Jefferson in terms he could understand. Credit and debit have always been credit and debit. I submit he may have been able to grasp such concepts better than most people today. (For fun, research the origin of the word "bond" - as in a financial instrument.) Heck, as far as abstract concepts go, the Founders were people who understood the concept of "rights" which a lot of people still believe is something given to them by government.
I don't believe that his limited experience in the eighteenth century monetary world would disqualify Jefferson from his objection to fiat money in all its forms.
Banks are failing once again. Companies are relying upon foreign investment to keep them afloat. This can't continue. To quote Einstein (I think), "that which cannot continue, will stop."
Ron Paul probably won't get elected, but enough of us kooks campaigning for him might shake things up enough for non-kooks to take notice.
Or split the Republican vote enough for another President Clinton.
Sure this has been beaten to death so I'll grab the nearest soapbox to pile on.
Paul is the only viable candidate with a voting record that consistently demonstrates he would uphold the Constitution as President. I think he would structure a Supreme Court to do the same. Is that so much to ask?
Of course anyone who supports Paul is vilified as a kook, since upholding the Constitution is viewed as quaint and outdated in such an advanced society as ours that relies upon such conveniences as oil and credit cards and electronic banking.
The Constitution gave Congress the authority to "coin" money. In the very same sentence it gave Congress the authority to establish standards of weights and measures - if not for the purpose of weighing and measuring such coins to determine their value, then what? The Founders just lived through a horrible period in which failed currencies and defaults on promises to repay public debt resulted in widespread misery. Jefferson understood that printing, "minting", or other means of producing fiat money was pernicious and invited disaster. The fact that the dollar has declined about 50% against the Euro since 2000 is one recent result of the toxic effect of fiat currency. I paid $7.00 for a cup of coffee in London last month. Breakfast for four in Toronto cost me $150.00. The dollar has become so weak in the world markets that OPEC has seriously been considering selling its oil in Euros (source). Flooding the market with dollars to bail out the mortgage mess puts even more pressure on US currency (source). The rest of the world, heavily invested in US debt, will eventually want something tangible in return, such as the government of Abu Dhabi buying Citigroup (source).
The results of this mess will be felt in lowered standards of living for many years, and arguably threatens our national security. That's what I think Jefferson had in mind with his quote.
I don't know if a Ron Paul presidency can solve the problem. I am confident that he understands there is a problem though, which is more than I can say about any of the other candidates and most members of Congress. Identifying a problem is the first step toward proposing a solution. He's the only one on the House Banking Committee with enough knowledge of the situation to put Ben Bernanke in the hot seat - and make him sweat (source).
Ajaxinacan, I think the points you made are worth debating. I don't believe the concept of credit or debit cards or electronic funds could not have been explained to Jefferson in terms he could understand. Credit and debit have always been credit and debit. I submit he may have been able to grasp such concepts better than most people today. (For fun, research the origin of the word "bond" - as in a financial instrument.) Heck, as far as abstract concepts go, the Founders were people who understood the concept of "rights" which a lot of people still believe is something given to them by government.
I don't believe that his limited experience in the eighteenth century monetary world would disqualify Jefferson from his objection to fiat money in all its forms.
I'm not sure what you mean to infer. If the town or stores recognized the currency, they could choose to accept it, or not. No government mandate stated they must until the 20th century. Would Jefferson have considered this a problem that the Constitution was designed to prevent? I doubt it. Gold and silver coin could still be used anywhere.
...and failed with disturbing regularity when they could not redeem it after printing too much.
...and failed with disturbing regularity when they could not redeem it after printing too much.
Banks are failing once again. Companies are relying upon foreign investment to keep them afloat. This can't continue. To quote Einstein (I think), "that which cannot continue, will stop."
Ron Paul probably won't get elected, but enough of us kooks campaigning for him might shake things up enough for non-kooks to take notice.
Or split the Republican vote enough for another President Clinton.
Carryabigstick
New member
I like Ron paul but if he's not int he running by the time Washington primaries comes around I think I like Fred or Huckabee. My big beef with both is that they're not really gonna shrink the fed. So it may be that I vote Paul even if he doesn't have a huge shot.
Brave man to post that in public view on this forum
Fellow Ron Paul supporter here. Sadly, I believe the Republicans will be too full of themselves to give the nomination to him. My money is on Rudy Gulliani. Yeah, he banned firearms in New York, which was after his constitutants demanded it. I've always respected a politician who listens to their constitutants, since we're paying them to voice the opinion of their citizens in congress. On the plus size for us, he won a lot of respect in my book after he told a legally blind man at a rally that he won't pass laws to take away his revolver.
That my friends, sounds gun friendly to me.Unregistered
Moderator
Well, if that is the case, they sure haven't been able to accomplish any of their agenda in the last seven years, so what is the problem?
TheCaretaker
New member
Hugh Hefner!
Just think of the cabinet he would put together!
Just think of the cabinet he would put together!
cool hand luke 22:36
New member
I support Duncan Hunter for the nomination. And since he has no chance at this point, I can see supporting flawed candidates like Fred Thompson or Mike Huckabee in a matchup against the Democratic party nominee.
Thomas Jefferson was a not overly bright, two-faced backstabber, incapable of loyalty, who'd drive a carriage over anyone he conned into believing was a friend (John Adams) if politically expedient, and a pervert who dragged a teenaged slave girl (Sally Hemmings) around with him to satisfy his sexual needs.
Why people trot out quotations from the idiot Tom Jefferson with the expectation that they are universally agreed upon to be pronouncements from on high that settle any matter in contention beyond dispute is a mystery, really.
Thomas Jefferson was a not overly bright, two-faced backstabber, incapable of loyalty, who'd drive a carriage over anyone he conned into believing was a friend (John Adams) if politically expedient, and a pervert who dragged a teenaged slave girl (Sally Hemmings) around with him to satisfy his sexual needs.
Why people trot out quotations from the idiot Tom Jefferson with the expectation that they are universally agreed upon to be pronouncements from on high that settle any matter in contention beyond dispute is a mystery, really.