Which Would You Suggest?

S

Single Six

New member
I miss having a rifle. Now, as I've mentioned before, I've had terrible luck with what I'd thought was my ideal rifle; in this case, a Marlin 1894SS. My purposes for it were HD, short-range deer hunting, and any black bear issues that may have come up. Sadly, it did not measure up to the claims of reliability I'd always heard concerning levers. It had a nasty habit of being very finicky when it came to feeding HPs of most any configuration. So, away it went, and now I feel the need to try again. Heck, every man needs at least one good, dependable rifle! Now, here are my options, as I see them: A 7.62x39, either an AK clone or more likely a Mini 30...OR, is it possible my 1894 was a rare lemon, and maybe I should give lever actions another try? I am not an AR fan, so those are out. Any and all thoughts and suggestions are, as always, welcome and appreciated.
 
Mini-30 would be a great choice.

If interested in lever actions, you can get a nice Marlin 336 in .30-30 which would have similar ballistics to the 7.62x39.

But I think if black bear was a possibility, I would something bigger like a .270 or .30-06. I've never hunted them though... seems to me that's one of the animals you don't want to be under-gunned.

Thinking outside the box, a 12 ga shotgun would be an option. Meets all the requirements you listed. You could get a pump or semi.
 
Ndking1126: Great idea on the shotgun..actually, I did pick up a gorgeous 870 with the stainless finish after getting rid of the Marlin. You're exactly correct, it does meet all of my requirements. However, I do still have a hankering for a rifle. How dare you inject common sense and reason into this! Did my wife send you?! ;)
 
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If interested in lever actions, you can get a nice Marlin 336 in .30-30 which would have similar ballistics to the 7.62x39.
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I have never seen data that suggested the x39 could launch a 170 grain bullet at 2100 f/sec.......

They are similar ..... in the same way a 2 WD Datsun 720 and a 4 WD Ford Ranger are both similar pickups...... put a load on them and the difference becomes apparent. Neither are ideally suited for big jobs, but if I had to choose one for a big job, it would not be the Datsun......
 
Ndking1126: What has your experience with lever actions been [as far as reliability with HPs]? I do wonder if maybe I wasn't asking too much of the Marlin.
 
I have never seen data that suggested the x39 could launch a 170 grain bullet at 2100 f/sec.......
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Nor have I. But if you go to Remington's website, you can find a 125 grn 7.62x39 bullet at 100 yards is traveling at 2062ft/s with 1180 lbs of energy. And also that a 150gr .30-30 at 100 yards is traveling at 1973ft/s with 1296 lbs of energy. And at 200 yards, the same 7.62 bullet is traveling at 1783ft/s with 882 lbs of energy while the .30-30 at 200 yards is traveling at 1605ft/s with 858lbs of energy.

At 200 yards with a 100 yard zero, the 7.62x39 will drop 6.7" while the .30-30 will drop 7.2".

Single Six, I've never shot hp's out of a leveraction. I'm out west and don't find a typical lever action doesn't suite the longer ranges. Not to offend anyone, I know the.45-70 and other cartridges have been lobbed much longer distances then 350 yards or so my typical hunting shot, I just like the bolt actions better.. .30-06 or .270 and I'm a happy dude. I've never shot HPs, only .30-30 in lever action.
 
If you want "one rifle" and you like lever guns, I might suggest you look at the Browning offerings, and perhaps the older Browning/Winchester M-95s in 30-06, or 270 Winchester. These are flat shooting cartridges and will serve well from close to long range, and on everything from coyotes to moose.

I love Marlins too, but there is something to be said in the "one rifle world" for shells like the 7-08, 308 270 Winchester, 30-06 and so on. Marlin makes powerful lever guns, but none in the above mentions calibers.
 
Single Six said:
Sadly, it did not measure up to the claims of reliability I'd always heard concerning levers. It had a nasty habit of being very finicky when it came to feeding HPs of most any configuration.
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I've heard this complaint from time to time and I wonder how the shooter is levering the rifle. I'm not saying you were doing anything wrong, but I've seen guys try to gently lever a cartridge into a lever gun and cause a massive jam.

Lever guns, whether the Marlin variety or the Winchester variety are designed to be operated robustly. With vigor. From the rest position with your hand in the lever, push the lever down and forward all the way to the stop in one quick motion. You're not going to break it, that's the way it's designed to operate. Then, in one smooth fast motion, return the lever to the closed position.

You might have gotten a bad one, I'm not saying you didn't. But, I have a couple of levers around here that I've loaned in the past and I always take a minute and try to show the student how to operate it. Invariably they'll short-stroke it or try to slow-motion it and cause it to misfeed.

I've got a Model 1894 that will feed wadcutters when operated robustly. I've got a Model 336 that will feed empty brass when operated with authority. My favorite Win94 will invariably jam when I try to slow-motion it.

Again, you may have gotten a bad one. It happens.
 
Not only are there better rifles out there than the AK, there are better rifles for the money.

I'm not sure how you see 7.62 in HD role, but there are also some people who make 7.62 bullpups.

You can always get an M1A - great for hunting, can be used for tactical bear suppression and anti-zombie missions:


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M1A in Enhanced Battle Rifle (EBR) configuration



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I'm not sure how accurate the bullpup configuration is but I am pretty sure even in a bull pup stock on an M1A is going to be more accurate than most AKs out there:

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Lever guns, whether the Marlin variety or the Winchester variety are designed to be operated robustly. With vigor.
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Very true.

I had the same problem years ago when I bought my first (used) Win94 in 44 Magnum. I could not get it to reliably chamber a round except for maybe 20-30% of the time. Until a kindly old gentleman shooter suggested I "quit being a nancy with danged thing". Things improved greatly when I took his advice and started racking the lever like I meant it. Now it chambers every round...100% of the time.

Have you tried levering your rifle with gusto?
 
Paw Paw and Skadoosh: Thanks for the input. No, I did know enough to really rack the lever with authority every time, throwing it through it's full range of motion. I should also mention that the rifle was kept clean and lubed, and only factory ammo was used. It could well be that maybe I just got a bad one, which is why I'm wondering if my experience was not typical.
 
Count Zero and jmortimer: Wouldn't .308 be a bit much for HD [or is it safe to say that pretty much any centerfire rifle would be]? I'm thinking here of over-penetration.
 
Apropriate tool for the job.....

Nor have I. But if you go to Remington's website, you can find a 125 grn 7.62x39 bullet at 100 yards is traveling at 2062ft/s with 1180 lbs of energy. And also that a 150gr .30-30 at 100 yards is traveling at 1973ft/s with 1296 lbs of energy. And at 200 yards, the same 7.62 bullet is traveling at 1783ft/s with 882 lbs of energy while the .30-30 at 200 yards is traveling at 1605ft/s with 858lbs of energy.
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Aye, and if you race the Datsun and the Ford I mentioned above, the Datsun will get better milage........ The 170 gr loading beats both of them in terms of energy at 100 and 200.

The OP's stated purposes:

My purposes for it were HD, short-range deer hunting, and any black bear issues that may have come up.
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IMHO, the "black bear issues" take the x39 right the hell out. It'd work better than a sharp stick, but given a choice in the matter, I doubt anybody would recommend the AK round over a 170 gr .30/30 loading for bears .......

Myself, I'd go with a short shotgun for HD, and a larger caliber for deer/bear, but if one rifle has to do all those.......

http://ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html
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Jimbob86: I agree. I do have a shotgun that I know would fill all of my stated purposes just fine. But like I mentioned previously, to stick with the 870 would destroy my excuse to buy a new rifle[:D]. Plus, I am very attracted to Ruger's newest bolt action. If they ever offer it in stainless, I know it will only be a matter of time before I get one. Meanwhile, over-penetration is always a concern to me. Honestly, I'm not 100% certain using a rifle for HD is even necessarily a good idea for that reason. It seemed to me that the 7.62 would be potent but less prone to over-penetrating than a .308. Would you be comfortable using a .308 [or any centerfire rifle] indoors?
 
Would you be comfortable using a .308 [or any centerfire rifle] indoors?
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Depends upon the "indoors" in question. My house? Nope. Small house with 6 other friendlies. I stick to my carry guns for everything in house.
 
OK, you have a shotgun which will do all the jobs you need out to 100 yards or so. So now get a rifle, an accurate, one with range. I like the .30-30, not so much the x39, but neither is gonna have much for legs. I like short actions so I'm thinkin bolt action in a .308 based round like a .243, .260, 7mm-08 and of coarse the .308 itself. Then again you've had an atraction to lever guns in the past so if you're wanting a little more style than a bolt gun can offer look at a Savage 99 in .308 or .300 Savage or a Browning BLR in the cartridges mentioned aboved.

LK
 
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