which serial number for 4473 on Win pump take down?

C

Clark

New member
I bought 1.5 Win 97 basket cases and built a single gun. That FFL is passed away. I sold the extra rear receiver to an ffl. THAT FFL is passed away too.

I know with FALs it is the upper and with ARs it is the lower.
Is there an official list that shows this for all guns?
TIA
 
Nope.

You can contact the ATF for guidance, but they may not be much help.

The receiver is what matters. The takedown extension serial number was just there, as I'm sure you know, so the proper front half would be mated with the receiver.
 
If you started out with one-and-a-half firearms, apparently you had two serial numbers. You sold one receiver -- with a serial number -- to an FFL. It would seem to me that if you start with two serial numbers and you sell one serial number, the one you have left is your serial number.
 
A couple of posters have already stated that the serial number that matters is the one on the receiver. FYI, here's what federal law says about the topic, my emphasis underlined:
18 USC § 921 Definitions said:
(a)(3) The term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
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In short, for the purposes of interpreting most federal firearms laws including those regarding transfers, the frame or receiver is considered to be the firearm.

Serial numbers on other parts of a gun – whether applied for assembly purposes, to comply with military contract requirements, to comply with foreign law, or whatever – are superfluous and meaningless under U.S. federal law.
 
If the firearm has an upper and a lower receiver, what do you do when they both have serial numbers and not matching?

Where are the FAL and the AR shown to be different on an ATF list?
 
If the firearm has an upper and a lower receiver, what do you do when they both have serial numbers and not matching?

Where are the FAL and the AR shown to be different on an ATF list?
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Its determined based on what feature is considered to be unique to the receiver. In the case of the FAL/ L1A1 its the presence (Or absence) of the "safety sear cut" that determines semi or full auto. As the cut is in the upper that,s the receiver for the FAL.

The AR series its the trigger mechanism that's legally defined as semi or full auto so its the lower.

No, it doesn't make sense, but it is the rule.
 
If the firearm has an upper and a lower receiver, what do you do when they both have serial numbers and not matching?
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That is something that is highly situational, and should probably be resolved (if you're lucky) via a determination letter from the ATF.

An example that came to mind immediately, for me, was older Marlin lever action rifles.
Most of the time, Marlin put the serial number on the receiver. Sometimes, they put the serial number on the 'trigger plate' (lower tang and the bottom of the receiver). Once in a while, they put the serial number on both parts.

Several guys have gotten determinations from the ATF, in regards to proposed modifications, stating that removing the lower tang serial number from a rifle with dual serial numbers would be considered 'obliteration' and, therefore, would be illegal.
Other guys have gotten determinations from the ATF stating that removing a non-matching serial number from the lower tang is perfectly fine.

And then there are the guys that want to assemble a rifle from a combination of parts, that would end up as a rifle that has no serial number. In at least one case that was documented on the MarlinOwners forums a few years back, the ATF told the guy that he'd have to file a Form 1, because he would be manufacturing a "new" firearm. They told him that transcribing the serial number from the original lower tang onto the upper tang would not be acceptable.


...It's the ATF. They don't want to tell you what you should do. They just want you to do it, and then tell you it's illegal after the fact. :rolleyes:
 
I wrote the ATF 20 years ago and asked what was the legal difference between a flash hider and a recoil compensator.
They wrote back and said they did not have time to answer such questions.
I wrote my senator republican Slade Gorton.
Slade's assistant wrote back and said they have requested the ATF respond to me.
I then got a letter from the ATF that said that flash hiders were designed to reduce flash and recoil compensators were designed to reduce recoil.
 
Clark said:
I wrote the ATF 20 years ago and asked what was the legal difference between a flash hider and a recoil compensator.
They wrote back and said they did not have time to answer such questions.
I wrote my senator republican Slade Gorton.
Slade's assistant wrote back and said they have requested the ATF respond to me.
I then got a letter from the ATF that said that flash hiders were designed to reduce flash and recoil compensators were designed to reduce recoil.
Click to expand...
You should have asked Radio Shack.
 
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