which semi auto .308? FAL vs. G3 vs. AR-10? Opinions and help?

G

Gopher a 45

New member
Okay, I admit it. .223 just doesn't do it for me anymore. Don't get me wrong, I like my AR, but I just want to try something a little...bigger.

Anyway, I was leafing through the latest Shotgun News and saw some apparently good deals on FALs and HK G3s and some expensive deals on AR-10s. I was wondering if these good deals are really all that good (i.e. what's the catch?)

I'm trying to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of each choice and was wondering if someone who knows better than me could help out. The pros and cons I see are so far...

AR-10 pros: I'm familiar with the layout cause it's like the AR-15. Pretty good accuracy I hear. Can swap uppers like the AR-15 (but they're danged expensive!)

AR-10 cons: The rifle is expensive! Only Armalite seems to make it, so parts/service will be hard to come by and costly. I've heard not-so-good things about reliability. Mags are horribly expensive. It's the same pain in the butt to clean that the AR-15 is.

Cons win here.

FAL pros: Cheap. Many producers make it and parts for it. Mags are pretty cheap. It's easy to clean. Accurate(?) Reliable. Seems to be the lightest of the three.

FAL cons: I know next to nothing about it. What's this inch vs. metric refer to and are there interchangability problems between each? What's the catch with the cheap price and how beat-up should I expect the rifle and bore to be for around $600-650?

G3 pros: Again, cheap. Seems to be a lot of surplus parts and such for it. Even Bushmaster sells accessories for this. It's an HK, so I would expect the quality to be pretty good (but I don't know for sure). A lot of them seem to have nice furniture on them and the US-made receivers are cut for scopes already.

G3 cons: I know little about this one also. Seems to be heavy and cumbersome overall. Mags are more expensive than FAL's, but not as bad as AR-10's. Questionable reliability with the aluminum receivers. Again, why so cheap and how beat-up will the rifle and bore be for $600-650?


So I guess I need help deciding between the last two. Any help is appreciated.

P.S. what's the deal with that ad in the back for "pre-1981 drop-in auto sears" anyway? Seems fishy to me since there's no address for the company. Does BATF go trolling for suckers in Shotgun News now?
 
stay away from all the cheap imitation .308 out there in the fn and h@k line.they are pure junk.i have had lots of returns on them and refuse to dell them anymore.ck out the fn from ds arms armalite and springfield.if these dont fit the budjet then get a bolt gun in .308 and learn to fight with that.yes you will get people telling you that they have had great success with there whatever that the paid whatever for but these are probably not very gun savy and probably dont even know how to adjust the battle sights on these guns that they have.that is where we find the most trouble with these peices.also the cheap fn have lots of headspacing problems and reliability problems.good luck
 
Okay. Thanks for the replies. I kind of answered my own question by going thru the TFL files. So the US-made aluminum HK-91 receivers are basically crap and if you get FN, get a reputable maker. Thanks for the info on good manufacturers gunmart. It's good to hear a report from someone in the business. I guess I'll save pennies for a little longer rather than wasting money on some junk.

Strider, the link didn't work. So the upshot is it's a scam? There were just a lot of red flags in the ad like no address for the company and "no FFL needed!" screamed out at you.
 
Avoid the G3 clones at all costs. If you get a FAL clone, make sure it is an Imbel receiver one, not a Hesse or Entreprise receiver.
Those two guns are a breed apart from an AR10 and are much less expensive and also not nearly as good.
If you want a G3 style gun, get a HK91 or a Springfield clone of one...those are the only two quality choices and the HK will run you about $2000 and the Springfield will hit around $1500.
If you want a FAL, you're looking at $2-3000 for a Belgian or $12-1300 for a DSArms FAL, which some say is actually better made than the original Belgians but which is postban.
A base model AR10 will cost you around $13-1400.

Okay, strengths and weaknesses.
HK91/Springfield clone: Strengths are extreme durability and reliability, easily available spare parts through parts kits. Mags will run you between $25-50 but are readily available.
Weaknesses are a heavy trigger pull, accessories are DAMN expensive, field stripping is complicated, gun is heavy, sights are complicated.

Belgian/DSArms FAL: Strengths are good accuracy, good reliability, easily available spare parts via parts kits. Very very easy field stripping. VERY good ergonomics. Mags are very cheap at >$10 each.
Weaknesses are too-basic sights, hard to securely mount a scope.

AR10: Strengths are extreme accuracy, easy field stripping, assembles just like an AR which you are probably familiar with.
Weaknesses are expensive mags ($60-80), can be finicky with ammo, spare parts are available but not as cheap.

Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by RikWriter (edited April 09, 2000).]
 
OK, so it's not a semi .308, but it is bigger than an AR, and bigger than all of the rifles you mentioned, although not by much.

M1 Garand!

If you have $420 and 2 months, you have a Garand delivered to your door by FedEx. Clips cost an astounding $.35 each, a sling is $5, and a multitool is around $10.

I love my Garand, and it is in ways funner to shoot than an AR, because you have a case that is about 3X bigger than a .223 going in front of you where you can see it. And the recoil is almost comedial to experience, I wanted to laugh when I shot mine for the first time. Lots of push, but not a sharp kick. The 8th round is the funnest to shoot :)

Very good iron sights, you could make it really accurate if you wanted to, get a leather sling, good barrel, etc., but my $400 3 MOA shoooter does just fine for me.
 
Gopher a 45 try www.fnfal.com for some answers to the FNFAL questions. Mark Graham at Arizona Response Systems has a really good reputation. I'm currently debating the same issue that you are and am leaning more and more towards the FAL. I want a main battle rifle not a MOA precision shooter bolt rifle. That's a whole other story :D

Good Luck

------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick (Yeah I know I stole it)
 
glad to see we have some real shooters here instead of those "i got my sks for 50 bucks and it will outdo any m1a out there attitude."somtimes more is more !
 
Of those you list, the FAL is probably your best choice for a first, and maybe last, 7.62x51 rifle. For the price (at or just below $1000) you're getting what you paid for and then some.

A good kit gun is a great learning experience, especially if you know some of the pitfalls beforehand (by reading the falfiles discussion board for about a week).

You can get most of the stuff you need from Federal Arms (Imbel receiver and a parts kit). They'll not bait and switch you on their wares.
 
Thanks to all who replied so far. I'm leaning towards a DS FAL or FAL kit. I guess you gets what you pays for. That stupid import ban really cheeses me off! :mad: I guess there's no such thing as a free lunch (or a good .308 semi-auto for under 1000 bucks). I like the M1A, but the fact that it isn't as scary looking doesn't give the antis enough headaches! :D Thanks again all.
 
I'd go FN-FAL for the mere fact that magazines are affordable. The best gun in the world isn't any good without a magazine. AR-10s aren't cheap and I understand their M14 based magazines costs over $30 apiece now. Years ago G3 mags weren't too bad ($15-20) when the Pakistani made ones were imported, but that supply dried up quick.
 
The VEPR is the best AK I have ever seen - I went to ROBARM's place and examined as much as I could - If I was to buy an AK - thats the ONLY ONE I'ld buy.
It may be a few hunerd dollars more - but your getting what your paying for.
Also - its the only AK that accurate. As accurate as an match M1A1, according to the man I spoke with. I know thats some seriously BOLD WORDS - but he had the stuff to back that claim.

Of the choices listed - I would not hesitate to go with an FAL variant. Arazona Response systems Can give you the full skinny on them and hook you up.
 
I've had a chance to examine the VEPR and it's very, very nice. The fit and finsh were excellent, not what I'd expect from a Russian AK-style weapon. The cost was reasonable, especially considering what you are getting. I'll have to add this one to the list also. However, it only accepts crippled 10-round magazines and how expensive are they? I know, I know, why would anyone NEED more than 10 rounds? I get tired of answering that question. :D If ya have to ask, you'll never know!
 
Gopher,
Yes the upshot is it is a scam. There was some talk about it a while back. STAY AWAY, those guys are :eek:ATF :eek: "We're from the government and we're here to help you" NOT!!

Sorry about the link. It's fixed now, check it out.

HTH,strider
 
Well, of the 3 you listed, I would go with the FAL. Good accuracy, very reliable, ergonomic, cheap available parts and magazines are just a few of the pro's of this rifle. I don't have any experience with the AR-10 but I do know that the magazines are expensive and have heard that they can be ammunition sensetive. The H&K is an accurate reliable weapon but is probably one of the most uncomfortable rifles I shoot. The stock is short, no bolt hold open device, an awkward cocking handle, the magazine release is too far foreward, poor trigger, sights that need a special too to adjust and asafety lever can't be operated without shifting you grip unless you have a thumb that would be long enough to make scientists wonder if they have found the missing link. After their accuracy and reliability, they just really fall apart in the human enginering department. :( IMHO, the best made rifle is the M-14. Accurate, reliable, good handeling chacteristics and if you disregard the HK/FAL clones, cheaper than the FAL, HK-91 and the AR-10. Parts are easy to come by and a lot of folks out there can work magic with them that will shoot tight groups all day long. If it doesn't look evil enough for you as is, you can always put on a McMillian M2A stock so you can have a pistol grip stock, if you can find one, they used to make a folding stock based on the BM-59, and you can also get shorter bush barrels if you think it's too long. IMHO, it's the best rifle I own. But out of those you listed, I would go with the FAL.
 
I have one of the G3 clones with the aluminum receivers. I haven't had one bit of trouble from it and it groups at 3-4" at 100 yards. I really have no complaints about this gun given the price.
 
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