Which of the following two rounds is best for my goals

J

jmstr

New member
Ok, first off, I am not looking for advice on the best possible round/weapon to use for my goals.

I am looking for the best of the two options I am presenting. I understand that there are many other options that are probably better. I can't necessarily afford those options any time soon. I have to make due with what I've got.

My goals are the best possible round for trail-side useage: hiking/backpacking/camping. I live in the southern half of California and most of those trips would be the southern end of the Sierra Nevada Mt chain. Occassionally it might be coastal Oregon also, but that would be maybe once every 2-4 years, instead of every year. In my zone the most common threats to worry about are rattlesnakes, coyotes, black bear, mountain lion and human.

My zone doesn't have many, if any, brown bear [usually], or griz.

I have to make due with a firearm I have and can/will carry, without getting arrested [it IS california, after all]. In all probability, that means my 4" GP100 .357mag, or a .45acp 1911.

The rounds that look the most promising are made by Buffalo Bore and both are hard-cast lead. The .45acp one is a 255gr tapered flat nose [so it feeds reliably] that makes about 940 fps and produces around 465 ft-lb of muzzle energy. The .357mag one is a 180gr flat nosed round that makes around 1375 fps and produces around 765 ft-lbs of muzzle energy.

Obviously I am comparing 6 .357 rounds to carrying 8 .45acp rounds.

So, of these two rounds [and NO other calibers!!!!], which would you recommend for my purposes and why?

Again, I understand a .44mag is better for bear, but so is a .45-70 or .455marlin, or a bazooka. I intend to carry bear spray as well, but that may not be sufficient. When I believe I can carry my 7.5" SuperRedHawk I WILL have the .44mag with me. However, that may not be an option.

So, of these two firearms [gp100 4" barrel vs 1911 5" barrel] and rounds, which would you recommend and why?

I AM interested in any rounds for these two calibers that would be better for my purposes, but ONLY in .357mag or .45acp.

Thoughts please?
 
If those are the two choices then .357 would be my choice and GP100 would be my gun.

Lighter bullet but higher velocity and more energy.

GP100 because it's dead reliable. I don't know about your 1911 but I've never seen one I'd trust my life to.
 
The 357 will accomplish anything in your criteria. Also it would give you the option of a couple shot loads in the cylinder for those rattlers you mentioned.
 
I vote for the GP100 for the varied types of ammo one can have available instantly. No poisonous snakes around here(not often anyway) so I pass on the snake loads and make my first two shots a moderate 38 Special with a swaged HP bullet for small varmints followed by 4 full power 357 158 HP.
I carry a Ruger 22lr semiauto most of the year but strap on the GP100 from now to snow fly time. I get an occasional opportunity at a close range deer and we do have bobcats and the occasional cougar(even though the conservation dept says not). The bigger caliber gives me more confidence even though I know a 22 will terminate either of those cats with a head shot.
 
Either one is capable of doing what you want. Which one do you shoot better? A 1911 offers more rounds and quicker reloads but is it reliable? GP offers better choices for ammo and almost total reliability. Probably not wrong choice here but I think I would take the GP - simple - enough power - reliable.:)
 
To my knowledge, there are no credible documented evidence of Grizzly in California or Oregon anymore ...so the .357 mag is by far your best choice in my opinon.

and even if there are a few that have wandered down from northern Idaho or Montana ...we're talking about the north american Grizzly ...not the big Alaskan Brown bears ...and .357 mag is still plenty of gun...if you put the shots in the right place.
 
I'm a big fan of the Buffalo Bore round. I keep it in a 6.5" Blackhawk for carrying on easy hikes. Some of the tests I've seen show better than advertised velocities from this round too. I'd love to see what kind of velocity I get because I suspect it is around 1400+ fps out of that barrel. Pretty hot stuff for most of the four-legged friends you would encounter.
 
The .45acp one is a 255gr tapered flat nose [so it feeds reliably]
Click to expand...

You can't - or shouldn't - take that last part as gospel based on advertising.
You would have to shoot a sufficient number to be certain of functional reliability. In your district, I would probably just take some well tested name brand 230 gr JHP instead of a magnumized wonder bullet. Or the .357 likewise. Major Wesson shot everything that walks crawls or flies with the then-new .357 and 158 gr SWCs.

Which gun do you SHOOT the best with standard full power ammunition?
 
Some great replys. I'll have to practice with both head to head to see which I'm better with. I would honestly say I am equally good [or equally bad :D] with each one.

However I haven't fired those extra powerful rounds in either of the pistols in question. I would have to experiment with 20 and 22 lb recoil springs in the 1911 with said full-power .45acp to find the right 'reliable' combination. I've yet [knock on wood] to have any cycling or misfire problems with my 1911s [argentine Systema and RIA Tactical in 5", Kimber in 4"]. I wouldn't dream of carrying a 1911 if I had had any failures to function with it though.

[of course, if I can find a way to bump up the recoil spring, I could try the round in my S&W M&P .45 full sized, and have 10+ rounds. Hmmmm]

So, next step seems to be to buy heavy rounds and try with both platforms to see which I am naturally best with.

BTW, the .45acp round is a flat topped lead round nose profile in the 255gr .45 from BB. That should feed better than a SWC profile, like double-tap's ammo.

From your responses I am leaning toward the GP100 for the overall utility. I can change round types in the field and not have to change recoil springs, which beats the .45 platforms.

Anyone else have any further recommendation? Thanks for all the input so far.
 
my S&W M&P .45 full sized, and have 10+ rounds.
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Ah, HA!
Another reason to settle for a good stout standard round like maybe Ranger T. Not because of the caliber or the magazine capacity but because it weighs less, which I would count a major advantage while tramping down the trail.
And since the Buffalo Bore is within SAAMI +P rating, some to check for function and enough to fight off a lifetime of woods varmints is not going to beat up a good gun much, if you just must.
 
Just discussing the ammo, the 357 load will do better on black bear and just about a tie for everything else.

Discussing the *gun*, the GP100 has an interesting advantage: the ability to be totally field-stripped in the field with minimal tools on the off chance the gun gets dipped in something truly yucky such as thick mud. To me, this raises it's value as a deep-back-country survival tool.

The 38/357 ammo combination generally is also interesting as a deep-woods setup. By all means carry it with hot hardcasts as you've described, and the BuffBore 180 is a great choice. But you also want to have some of the following:

* An accurate "light 38" load for small-to-medium-game needs in a pinch. Target wadcutters work great.

* Snakeshot, more for small-game-getting than snakes...

* Some hot 125gr combat ammo in a couple of speedloaders, for that rare situation where you run into an illicit pot plantation and end up in a shootout...it DOES happen.

* Two to six blanks as signalling devices might not be a bad idea. If you reload, blanks are very easy to make...powder capped with wax. Some variants can be used as an emergency firestarter so don't use flash-suppressed powder.

Upshot: odds of needing these may be low, but they don't add much weight and can solve a wide range of problems.
 
Tough call. The revolver does have more versatilty. And I'm another one that as a whole don't trust 1911 .45's. Had too many that were too finicky. That would also make me lean towards the revolver. Having said that my hiking camping gun is a Glock 30 .45. Here's why. First off as auto's go it is totally reliable and nearly indestructible. Next it is very accurate and compact. Important when carrying a maxed out load in a backpack. Next 10+1 rounds on board with a back up G21 mag with 13 more rounds is allot of firepower with a big heavy bullet. Since I don't count on one round dropping an animal or a person lots of rounds is good. And the .45 has allot less muzzle blast nad recoil than a hot .357. So I can place more shots on target easier.
Except for the bear most of the animals (human or otherwise) are thin skinned either the .357 or .45 should work for you if you do your part. In the
.45 I carry a mixture of Winchester Ranger 230gr. +P and ball. That gives me a good balance of penetration and expansion. It comes down to what you have the most confidence in. Each one has it's own strengths and weaknesses.
 
I also have a 4 inch GP-100 so I'm biased. Nevertheless, my advice is this - if your primary concern is dangerous animals, carry the 357. If your primary concern is dangerous humans, carry the 45.

I handload for my GP100 and it will fire a 185 grain Wide Flat Nose Beartooth bullet at 1278 fps. That's a deep penetrating bullet, perfect for dangerous animals. It also works on humans but the recoil is heavy and follow up shots and reloads are slower than what you'd get with a 1911.
 
if you look over a few histories of bear attacks, you will find that they come out of nowhere and bowl you over. Most successful defenses have invovled shoving the handgun into the bear's body and firing until the gun is empty.
Any automatic is going to jam after the first shot. As for the cartridges, the
.357 Magnum with a heavy loaded 180 to 190 grain load is ideal. I lean toward Buffalo Bore and excellent experience with these loads. No hollow point for this duty!
 
One more thing-- even though I am 1911 man to the core I have to state from personal experience that with heavy loads such as the one described
the 1911 will be a rattling wreck in a few hundred rounds. Go with the Ruger.
It isnt for nothing loading manuals have Ruger only sections in .45 Colt, and the .357 Ruger is also very strong. Plus, Ruger barrels sometimes generate greater velocity with a given barrel length.
 
.357 is your best choice. I disagree with using hard cast lead, even a black bear is better approached with an expanding bullet. I would carry 158 grain HP rounds, if you can use them comfortably in that pistol. Switch to slower expanding soft points if you wind up in an are where bears really are common. Cougar and coyote would be easily taken with the standard .357 HP loads.

You made a good choice here.

But, I really recommend that you go get yourself a .454 casull and throw out both of those other things.

:D

Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
Either will kill the larger animals you're concerned about. Snake shot will probably be more reliable out of the revolver.
 
Of those the 357 is clearly the best choice. A 45 is a poor choice for this. Actually the 357 would be my 2nd choice even if you were interested in other calibers.

I'd advise that you use something in a hot loaded hardcast. An expanding bullet may do just fine on average sized black bear, but you never know how big a bear you may run up against. 200 lbs. or less is most common, but 500+ are not exactly uncommon and 800 lb. black bear are out there.

Most successful defenses have invovled shoving the handgun into the bear's body and firing until the gun is empty.
Any automatic is going to jam after the first shot.
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Well I'd agree with the first part, but if you're close enough to jam an auto, you are close enough to bind the cylinder on a revolver and prevent it from moving or have fur between the hammer and frame.

A hot loaded revolver is an excellent choice, but my personal choice is the G-20 with 200 gr hardcast @1300 fps. They are actually almost exactly the same length and weight as a 3" Ruger Sp-101, but with 3X the ammo and much better ballistics than you could get from a 3" 357. You can match it with a 357, but need at least 6" of barrel to do it.

But the OP's 4" 357 is a very good choice, as long as he chooses his ammo correctly.
 
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