Which military units use the M14 and how?

A

AEM

New member
I just bought an M1A, so I'm suddenly fascinated with the M14 and how it is used in today's military. The SEALs are well known for using it; a recent Discovery channel program showed SEALs using M14s with fiberglass stocks in various training scenarios, as well as a weapons instructor giving his classroom introduction to the weapon. The instructor said that the SEALs use the M14 as a sniper weapon like some of the other services, but are unique in using it as an individual battle rifle. A photo in U.S. News and World report taken during the Gulf War showed some specwar types, probably SEALs, in a dune buggy with an M14 stowed on board. Makes perfect sense for that application, particularly in the desert where shots might be long.

In Blackhawk Down (great book), a Delta operator ruefully acknowledges the wisdom of one his buddies who prefers the M14 over the M16, which with the heavy bullet Nato loads seemed to be drilling holes in Somalis but not stopping them. Delta sniper Randy Shugart, awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously, is said to have carried an M14.

I saw a photo of an 82nd Airborne sniper with a scoped M14 in Panama. Do any of the sniping services still use it?

Other than in color guards, how else is this weapon used today? Lets hear from anyone who has seen it issued and used since Vietnam.
 
I have heard reports that the US Marine Corps is considering placing at least one M-14 into every rifle squad. I have also heard reports that US Army Soldiers who participate in operation Bright Star in Egypt, have on some years been issued M-14 rifles only. Something to do with the weapons reach and its ability to not be aversely affected by the sand as compared to M-16's
 
The Army uses the M-14 for Scout/Sniping (not sure of it's official name). Force Recon also uses the M-14 in the same manner as the SEAL's.
 
FWIW, there may be a few M21s (match grade M14 w/scope) in service, but I don't think so. Even the National Guard is getting the M24 systems. (Remington 700s)

As of a few years ago ('95) the M14 was still the Navy rifle. You could find a few photos of sailors standing on the bow of their ships looking for mines.

Depending on which SOCOM unit your talking about, there is a lot more flexibility for weapons than, say, in the 75th Ranger Regiment. Lots of operators prefer the 7.62 as it has more punch.

The Corps is apparently looking for a new Designated Marksman Rifle. The reported frontrunner is a remake of the M21. Lots and lots of controversy over that decision.

My take is that the M14/M1A is a great service rifle, but a maintenance intensive sniper weapon.

Giz
 
I used the M-14 while on active duty in the U.S. Army Honor Guard, from 1987-1991. And yes, we actually SHOT them too, took them into the field, they were our PRIMARY weapons for the first couple of years that I was there. We didn't even have any M-16's when I first got there.

I know, people think that we were "toy soldiers" and only marched around with them guarding the Tomb of the Unknowns, etc. We qualified with them at least 2x per year, and went on numerous Arteps (field training to all of the non-military types here) with said M-14's.

We had 2 stocks per weapon: one a real honest-to goodness walnut stock that we each had to finish by hand with a nice white sling with chrome hardware, for ceremonial use, and a fiberglass brown stock (like the SEALS use), with regular black or OD web sling, etc., for the field. We had a dull, chromed M-6 bayonet for the parades, etc., and a regular SHARP M-6 for "riot control", etc. (We were in Washington, DC, and yes, we were also CHARGED with protecting that city as well, if the need ever arose.)

We were (the 3rd US Infantry, A.K.A. the "Old Guard") not only the Army's Official Ceremonial Unit and Official Escort to the President, but we also were a fully trained, combat-ready line infantry unit.

By the way, I also served a stint as my unit's armorer as well ( I got to tinker with the M-14 a lot), hence the user name I have: "X-Armorer." I could go on for quite a while about what all we did, but won't. If anyone is interested, just give a holler. I'm out.
 
Thanks, everyone for your comments. Keep it coming! The Marine "Designated Marksman" concept sounds interesting. Imagine a scoped rifle in front line units! Maybe this is the opportunity for the Scout Rifle to fulfill its promise! (Read smiley face here - -I haven't ever learned how to do that)

Thanks, X-Armorer, for your comment. That was interesting. I saw that movie about the Old Guard, "Gardens of Stone" I think. Were you the character played by James Caan? I was in Arlington last spring and saw the base.

It seems like the M14 is in very limited use. I imagine it is a logistical headache to keep parts, service, ammo etc. for it in the system.
 
Only because the government likes to over pay for things (thousand dollar toilet seats and hammers come to mind). The M-14 uses same round as the M-60 machine gun and places like Lake City are making millions of rounds of that stuff. I just bought a gas Piston, gas cylinder and op rod for a M1A (USGI M-14 parts) All brand new, All still in the wrappers (all early 60s dated). They weren't expensive and weren't hard to find. With all the parts from the ones Bill Clinton had chopped up in the mid 90s (before the senate stopped him) the extra parts manufactured while they were making the guns and the new ones being produced (By Springfield and others) the stuff is out there. (heck you can buy a striped new bolt in the wrapper for $45) I have also read where most of the companies who originally made M-14s still retain the machine tools and dies that they originally used, and its only a matter of when the price gets high enough for these parts before they start producing them again.




[This message has been edited by Alan B (edited January 25, 2000).]
 
us army, usmc, and us navy use the M14 to varying degrees mostly in special ops units that allow weapons to be hand tailored for the mission(marine recon, sta, seals,sf groups , etc)....i dont know about the air force,Do they even allow their troops to carry a weapon without a note from home?
the last combat use was in desert storm ..the seals had a configuration called the m25 built by the armorers at nswc crane it was an updated version of the m21 sniper rifle...its an excellent spotters rifle in a scout sniper team...but unless giving away your pos is your goal...the flying brass makes it a less effective snipers tool..the military versions had a max eff range of 800 yds i believe with the sniper configuration...a standard m14 was in the arena of 460 yds, making it less effective...if i remember right, snipers also used the m118 round which has been upgraded to i think m118LR since the use of the rem 700 sniper series..all sniper rifles now use the the rem 700 action
i hadnt realized the m14 was going to make a comeback in the usmc...too bad...it would be smarter to use a match m16 with a flattop, and a ten round mag for prone firing, then you wouldnt have to worry about ammo, or being picked and shot by a sniper due to your unique weapon, as radiomen, heavy machinegunners, and officers are.
the recoil on an m14 makes it less than effective in auto.
i will have my own m1a by weeks end but I LOVE the ar15...my own rifle will be configured as a spotter.good luck
-johnny
 
Mongrel, the DMR (designated marksman rifle) is supposed to have greater range and PENETRATION than the M-16. That is why it is the 7.62mm being used. It seems as if the US is beginning to adopt the old Soviet style of combined arms. The Sovs rarely had someone of the quality of one of our snipers so they used a LOT of precision riflemen with limited (by our standards) fieldcraft. It does give the small unit a bit more flexability/capabilitys. We will still maintain our snipers as well (god willing) but the DMR concept might better suit the OOTW we are being used for these days.

OOTW = operations other than war
 
The M25 is not unique to the SEAL teams. It is basically an updated version of the M21 using the fiberglass stock and updated optics. I spent a couple of years in a Special Forces support company and I heard tell the snipers were testing the AR10 and SR25 as possiable replacements with the SR25 getting good results. Perhaps the DMR concept will go with a rifle like the SR25. There is some parts interchangeability with the M16. Maintenance would be less and basically the same for the armorers.

There are still a few M21's in service. The National Guard marksmanship unit here in Wyoming has a few. They are really kind of cool. A little like shooting a museum piece. The ones we have are used up. They were no doubt first rate in their day, but time has run out on them and I hear we are getting more bolt guns to replace them.
 
Alan B.,
Where did you buy the parts from? I'm curious, because I recently ordered some parts from some of Herr Klinton's "chopped and de-milled" M-14's. To be specific, I bought a trigger group, complete, and an op rod, spring and guide through the CMP, but they were not new, far from it. The parts are okay, mind you, and the prices were damn good, but the parts were used, most assuredley, from chopped rifles. I'd like to find some "new-in wrap parts" that were reasonable. How about it?

I also read in Small Arms of the World by Clinton Ezell that all M-14 tooling was sold to Taiwan (R.O.C.), after the U.S. Gov't., in it's most "infinite" wisdom, terminated production of the rifles. I'd like to believe otherwise, for sure. I love the M-14!

No, AEM, James Caan did not portray me, but I did know some people who actually were in Gardens of Stone, and the movie is right on the mark as far as accuracy is concerned. Some things have changed since the time period that it was portrayed, however.

I'm out.
 
Alan B would also like to know about parts.

X-Armorer What do you reccomend as extra parts ie what breaks most offten?

Here is a little tid bit from General posted by Oakta
"If they had a weapon, they were going down. Except for an NVA paymaster I hit at 900 yards, everyone I killed had a weapon."
Near the An Hoa base outside Da Nang, he caught a platoon of North Vietnamese army regulars crossing a stream. He hit 16 with head shots with an M-14, which he often carried in addition to his bolt-action."

Thats one of the advantages of the auto, the bolt would run dry even if you could cycle the thing fast enough.

I think the role of the M14 and other precision auto 7.62 rifles are in a spotter capacity these days and the bolt the primary, but if the BG gets in close the 14 with scope turned down to min is the way to go.
 
Ok Guys Get ready to start clicking

ChestnutRidge These are nice people and they sell real nice used parts. I bought a used H&R GI trigger group from them and It was so much better than the Match Trigger I got on my new SA that I ordered a second.
www.chestnutridge.com/
They also sell a spare parts kit for $28 which includes (Bolt Stop Spring, Clip Guide Pin, Connector Lock Pin, Ejector & Spring, Extractor Spring & Plunger, Extractor, Flash Suppressor Set Screw, Flash Suppressor Nut, Front Sight Screw, Gas Cylinder Valve Pin, Gas Cylinder Lock, Gas Cylinder Plug, Hammer Pin, New Hammer Spring, Magazine Latch Pin, Op Rod Guide Pin, Op Rod Spring, Safety Spring, and Trigger Pin)

www.fulton-armory.com/ Lots of new parts

www.m1garandrifle.com/

www.tti-intl.com/index.htm

www.usgunparts.com/

www.amherst-depot.com/m14gunparts.htm

www.jtsurplus.com/products.cgi.html

You can also try Springfield Armory too.
(They are building so many rifles right now that most of their parts are going into their rifles)

Right now the hardest parts/ most expensive to find seem to be gas pistons and new or like new Operating rods and magazines. Though there seem to be some rewelded op rods out there "ich"

oberkommando
You might want to get that parts kit from Chestnut ridge and a second bolt complete, headspaced to you rifle. Also I believe Fulton Armory has a list of spare parts that is prioritized in 3 or four levels. Level 1 being the most common ones needed.

Is this enough.
 
Mongrel66 doesn't seem to care for the M-14's accruacy. Back in '66 I went through the weapons course at Camp Pendelton several times before going to Nam & eachtime I aced the 500 yard course. I also never had problems with firing in auto. The M-14 was the battle rifle back when the military still taught "Marksmanship" as opposed to "Spray&Pray". Oh & by the way I was a lowly Squid.
 
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