Which caliber? Which brand?

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Amish Gangsta

Inactive
For my next gun purchase I've been considering either a .223 or a .308 caliber. I'll use this gun for target practice/defense. I was wanting a gun that has good long range accuracy and according to some ballistics charts I've looked at the .223 seems better at long range but doesn't pack as much punch as the .308.

Now as far as the brand of the gun. I've checked out Armalite's website (www.armalite.com). I've never actually seen/used one of their guns before. Are they a good brand? I was hoping to keep the price under $900 if possible.

Thanks,
Jason B. aka -- Amish Gangsta
 
I have an Eagle/Armalite M4C and the quality is outstanding. There is no slop between the upper and lower receivers like nearly every Colt I've ever seen (we won't even to into issue M-16's). Either Armalite, Bushmaster, or Colt would be a safe bet.

.223 is great if you're looking for a lightweight rifle with little kick and decent range. Some of those long range cartridges must be loaded one at a time because it's overall length prohibits more than one from being inserted into the magazine.

Nearly all .308 rifles are going to be pretty heavy or they'll kick like a mule. Having a heavier bullet, .308 will be less susceptible to deviations caused by wind.

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I offer neither pay nor quarters nor provisions; I offer hunger, thirst, forced marches, battles and death. Let him who loves his country in his heart, and not his lips only, follow me.
-Giuseppe Garabaldi
 
I have an Armalite. Sold my Colt as it didn't shoot as good. (It shot good, but not as good as the Armalite).
I have fired both the Armalite in 5.56 and the M1A in 7.62x51 at Camp Perry. Both are doing the job. The M1A is more satitisfying to me. I like the whump it has.
The wind drift is more affected by bullet shape, sectional density, ballistic coefficience, and velocity than caliber. Some of the newer heavy .224 diameter match bullets really beat the wind.
Read a lot.
Cat
 
AG....I don't think your going to find a 308 Armalite for 900,most are 1500 to 1800 that Ive seen.As far as the 223 is concerned stay with Armalite,bushmaster,DPMS.If you want more range go with a bull barrel 22/24in to increase velocity and accuracy......
 
Oh ya the 223 is a better defensive round(IMHO),it wont go threw the average walls(unless you live in a mobile home)if your in your house and since they are a lot lighter than 308 you can carry more rounds..
 
Assuming you are going to be shooting at targets set up at 100-200 yds (ie, bowling pins or watermelons), your choice of make, model and caliber are many. However, if you are going to use this weapon for defense (also long distance shooting, since short distances can be better handled with handguns/shotguns), then choose one of the popular rifle/caliber combos that utilize easy to get NATO ammo (ei, .223 or .308).

Also look at the availability and cost of accessories/ammo for your prospective rifle.

My favorites in .223 are; high priced ($1,250-$1,400) Colt's CAR-15 A3 H-Bar elite, and low priced ($350-$500) Ruger Mini-14 Ranch. In .308 I like high priced only...Armalite's AR-10(T) for around $1,450 and the formidable H&K 91 A2 for around $2,000. Obviously on the .308 rifles listed here you'll go broke on adding accessories, but the .223 choices offer a wide range of affordable add-ons, magazines, etc.

As for ballistics for defense, I like the .308 hands down. It carries a hell of a wallop with bullet weights in the 150-168 gr area, especially those ballistic-tip dealies. But it'll cost you a fortune to shoot at watermelons at about $.45 to $1.25/round versus .223 at about $.16 to $.25/round.
 
Ok, I'm the original poster of this topic and another question has come to mind.

Is .308 the same as 7.62x39mm? Because I've already got a 7.62x39mm gun (Norinco Mak-90).

Also, while I'm thinking about it, how does the .243 caliber fit in with .223 and .308? Better/worse? Pros/Cons?

Thanks
 
No, they are not the same. The 308 (7.62X51) fires heaver bullets at higher velocities.

The 243. on paper, seens like a good choice. But ammo prices are high. There is no surplus market to draw from.

For what you want, stick with the 5.56. An awful lot of work went into it's design.
 
The 243 is simply the 308 necked down to take a 6mm bullet. You can buy and load components for the 223 a lot cheaper than for the 308. Cheaper ammo=more shooting=better shooting skills. Once-fired military brass for the 308 has usually been fired out of a M-60LMG, and they're real rough on brass, meaning you may only get two reloads out of it before it suffers case-head separations. M1A's are rough on brass too. While AR's may ding the cases a little, they will last a long time with reasonable loads. If you intend to teach a youngster or a woman to shoot, the light recoil of a 223 will make your job lots easier, too.

[This message has been edited by flatlander (edited July 26, 1999).]
 
Get both :). But get the .223 first!

If you're looking toward accuracy don't bother with the Ruger Mini-14. It's a great rifle and I've had one since before Clinton was crowned king but they're really only good for 4-6" at 100 yards.

None on my AR's are even half that bad. My Armalite M15A4 is a real tack driver (for a semi-automatic) and can do sub 1" groups at 100 yards. Armalite is a first class operation and my Armalites are better than my Olympic Arms, DPMS and Hesse rifles.

The .308's are more expensive little toys. I shoot surplus NATO ammo at $.20 a pop which isn't too far off from .223 when you concider you've got a $1400 rifle, $200 scope mount, $450 scope... a few cents on the cartridges goes un-noticed (getting the rifle past the CFO is the tough part ;)). Of course match ammo is going to run you a buck a shot or more unless you reload and then that's a whole 'nother hobby to feed.
 
Amish, If you're talking about HOME defense then,perhaps a scatter gun or hand gun would be more appropriate. That leaves the rest of your question to long range accuracy & target practice. And it seems you favor a simi auto. My son has an AR .223 with a holo sight.... Tactical set up,very effective,fun to shoot & accurate, but very expensive. I have a Mini-14 & it makes for a good "knock around" gun, minute of coyote to 100 yds.... LOTS of fire power,durable, & much less expensive. Now, another son has a Savage M-12 in .223 bolt action..... moderately priced, SUPER accurate out of the box, with minute of coyote to 400 yds. AND with it's one in nine in. twist, it will handle the heavier, much higher B.C. bullets. The first three-shot group we fired with it all went into the same hole at 50 yds right ouy of the box. Good price, good quality,excellent accuracy, You can't go wrong with a Savage M-12 ;)

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Ralph in In.
 
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