Which bolt action carbine: Remington Model 7 or Winchester 70 Classic Compact?

Dogger

New member
Gentlemen, I am trying to decide between a Remington Model 7 in stainless steel and synthetic stock chambered in .260 Remington, 7mm-08, or .308; or a Winchester Model 70 Classic Compact in 7mm-08 or .308. The Winchester would be a hardwood stock and blue barrel.

Both rifles are very similar in terms of dimensions and weight: 20 inch barrels, total length in the 39 inch range. Weight without a scope in the 6.5 pound range.

Purpose is white tail deer hunting in eastern woods.

I have never owned a Remington or Winchester bolt action rifle.

Please give me your pros and cons for both.

Thanks.
 
I own many model 70 Winchesters. I don't think you can buy a better rifle out of the box! The model 70 has a better 3 position safety than the Rem. The bolt on the model 70 is stronger and smoother than the Remingtons. And over all quality of the model 70 is better ( It seems that Rem. quality has dropped as of lately) I see many rifles come through our shop, and the model 70 seems to have very few problems. I told my dad (owner) that if we had to rely on fixing model 70's we would both starve! I did fix one about 3 yrs. ago that had a broken magazine spring due to neglect. Other than that,0! Both guns are good, I custom tune all of my rifles so I would buy the one I like. But OUT OF THE BOX, WINCHESTER! no doubt about it. Oh, the other deciding factor is durability. I like stainless, or Teflon finishes and synthetic stocks for hunting here in Pa. I'm too busy hunting to worry about a scratch. Besides, they are ugly as sin! Isn't that great!?!?! :D
CJB
" I'M THE NRA!"
 
I have a Winchester Model 70 Classic Compact in 308 Winchester.
I like the new (1992) classic Model 70's for sporting rifles becasuse I like thier controled round feed action (best feature), their basic trigger and their safty. You also often get an O.K. basic walnut stock. With these features, I figure I have a factory rifle that is worth putting the money into to make it a good, though initially cheap, rifle. But I wouldn't rate the rifle out of the factory box very good at all.
My rifle is a disappointing shooter out of the box. I never broke 4" with it off a bench rest at 100 yds. with any factory ammo or with Sierra Match Kings loaded to Sierra's recommended accuracy load. My stockmaker says that Winchester uses some type of hot glue to bed these rifles (Not glass bedding) and this is the first thing to suspect. I hope so, because if it is in the barrel or basic blue printing of the rifle, it will be a lot more expensive to fix. I would like for the basic barreled action to be good, but cannot be sure of it at this point.
There are problems with the feed on this rifle. Now you would think that Winchester could get its famous Winchester Model 70 contoled round action to feed its equally famous 308 Winchester cartidge, no trouble at all. But if you thought this way, you would be wrong. The rifle jambs regualarly on its fourth and last round. A controled round gun that fails to feed reliabley is a sorry thing in my opinion, as flawless feed is the only reason to go to the expense of the claw extactor. I am told this problem is known in other Model 70 Classic Compacts and that there are gun smiths who know how to fix it. I am told that the problem is in the magazine spring (strength). I myself also suspect the polycarbonate magazine follower. I hope this is true and that the problem is not in the basic layout of the reciever, which would be a much more serious problem.
I had a trigger job done on the factory trigger before even shooting the gun. I didn't even want to know how the factory trigger worked out of the box. Why hassle with it? The design may be sound, but I would always figure this needs work.
When I opened the bolt on my new rifle, I was shocked to see what appeared to my eyes as a ring of pits like you see on old pre-WWII rifles that were fired with corrosive primers. On close inspection, this turned out to be just a harmless big old round sloppy machine mark around the firing pin hole. I cannot say that the machine work is really good, only O.K. You have to realize that there is practially no hand work on these rifles, so they cannot really be the best.
The walnut stock I got is actually rather pretty for a plain grade. It is neither plain nor quarter sawn, but somewhere in the middle and not very dense, but it is O.K. for the caliber. I also like their satin finish, whatever it is. I wish they would just forget about the pressed on checkering, because I could have had a really nice job done one this stock if they didin't get in the way first with this cheasy stuff.
The rifle came with a dinky rubber pad that I had replaced immediately with a much better Pachmeyr Delerator pad. I think it's a good idea to have one of these on such a light rifle. It also lets you adjust the length of pull more to your liking.
The rifle stock, of course, is made for scope sights. I don't like putting a scope on a little rifle like this, especially since I live in Missouri, where most deer are taken under 75 yds. I put a Lymann 57 reciever sight and a banded front sight on it, so of course when I bring this rifle up to my cheek, the sights are too low. I will have to have a new stock made for this rifle if I want to get it right. You could probably get it to work well if a scope is what you want.
Its a real good thing that I don't expect anything good from $500 factory rifles or I would have been disappointed by this arm. Luckly, I expecdted very little and bought it for the basic action, which is not a bad deal all by itself for the $500. Its a cute little action and very nice from a conceptual point of view. Years from now and maybe $2,000 later, I will have a really nice 308 Win. light rifle made just for me. I consider it a keeper.
 
Get somebody to show you how to adjust the overtravel, pull weight, and creep on both rifles. If accuracy means anything, you'll know which one to get!!
 
Dogger-

I really like the Winchester Classic actions. Like the man says, what are you going to expect for 500 bucks?

Take an opportunity to examine either rifle up close and personal- look for rough finishes, machining chatter, poorly fitting bolt parts, sloppy bedding, partially cut feed ramps, unusual crown features... and although your dealer might frown on this, ask to have the action removed from the stock for further inspection.

A factory barrelled Winchester can be tuned to shoot 1/2" MOA in .308 but it's not going to do it out of the box because 1) Winchester insists on pressure bedding the barrel meaning you'll have to remove some wood to free float the barrel. 2) While you're in there, you might consider removing the factory bedding and then pillar bedding the rifle especially if its a wood stock, and 3) the trigger will need tuning like just about every other factory rifle nowadays...

Although I like the .308 due to it's overall flexabilty and availability, the 7-08 should serve you equally well.
 
O.K., WalterGAII, I had to look this up in "Bolt Action Rifles" by Frank de Haas, because I would never do a trigger job myself, and I learned something.
The Model 70 trigger has two nuts on it which control takeup and pull. These are the only two truly adjustable characters on this 1930's design trigger. Overtravel or creep can only be smoothed, if rough, by stoning the sear. The amount of overtravel can be shortened by filing down the sear, but de Haas frowns on this because it is short already and because any over zealous filing can result in slam fires.
The threat of slamfires is real. An local gun shop owner once told me the story of a hunting buddy of his in Mozambique who had a Model 70 in 375 H&H that was fired by pushing the safty foreward and the guy would not get it fixed as he was satisfied with it that way. He blamed it on the sand, which was everywhere in that part of Mozambique and got into everything. He said it was disturbing to hunt with this quy, who was in every other respect fine, because of this.
Personally, Model 70 triggers don't bother me at all, but I am happy with well functioning Mauser and Springfield triggers as well. If you wanted a true varmint or target type of trigger on a Model 70, you would have to install an aftermarket trigger of your choice.

[This message has been edited by Herodotus (edited February 19, 2000).]
 
Heroditus:

I shouldn't have been so cryptic. I was asking a rhetorical question. I own both Rem. and Win rifles. The Rem., in my opinion, and in the opinion of most BR and Varminthunters is that the Rem. trigger is by far, superior to the Win. Both rifles mentioned in this thread are servicable rifles. They're both fine for shooting Whitetails. For popping a crow at 300 yds., you need every advantage. Push-feed, also, is generally accepted as more accurate than the Mauser-type control feed. Even Win. uses push-feed on their long-range rifles.

I've seen a lot of rifles out at our local range. I haven't seen a Win. yet that'll shoot a .5" groups, as somebody posted. I'm not saying that it can't be done, but I sure haven't been able to do it with my Mod. 70 Classic Stainless Synthetic, with BOSS, using the best handloads that I can produce.

On the other hand, the last group that I shot with my Rem. .223 VS was .246", for a five-shot group.

I'm going to sell the Win. and buy either a Tikka (excellent rifle which nobody's mentioned or another Rem.)

[This message has been edited by WalterGAII (edited February 19, 2000).]
 
Dogger, to stay with your question, I recently compared a Remington 7 stainless against a Model 70 Featherweight, and a Browning lightweight. I was disappointed at the scrapiness of the bolt on the Remington, and it seemed like it was "too small for the hole" as I worked it in the action. Same size-thing with the Browning.

The Winchester just "felt" best. Smooth function as the Browning, but the bolt didn't flop around.

Now, for me, "NIB" is much like "Showroom Stock". It's a starting point to turn it into a "real gun" or "real car". Re-bedding the stock and working over a trigger is like blue-printing an engine and working over the suspension. Factory-new is just the beginning of making it right.

I like the idea of the 7mm-08, since you can load lighter bullets than the .308, for varminting; and heavier bullets than the .260, for deer hunting. And it's not enough different than a 7X57, which has done in a lot of deer in its day.

FWIW, Art

[This message has been edited by Art Eatman (edited February 20, 2000).]
 
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