Which AR for deer

4

4x4monsterbuck

Inactive
I'm not new to hunting, but never hunted with an AR. I have used a browning A bolt 270 with 130 winchester silver ballistic tips for about the 5 years with very good results. I would like to add a firearm for mule and whitetail hunting, i want to be good out to 400 yards. Here's my issue: I want an AR15 setup but not a 223/5.56. Not interested in an AR10 at this time either. I've looked at many different options, but now I'm more confused than when I started. Any recommendations from someone that's using this type of setup already would be appreciated.
 
There are actually some good choices, but you will have to look at them carefully to figure out which one is best for you. There are of course a boatload of wildcats.

When you say 400 yards and Mule deer, you probably narrow the options down to a .30AR or a 6.5 Grendel. Those are really the top of the heap when it comes to a reasonably flat trajectory and enough horsepower at range.

There are others that might get a mention.

The 300 Blackout, while I really like it, just does not deliver enough out to 400 IMHO for Mulies. The 6.8 is too a bit hamstrung at distance. If I were you, I would look hard at some of the wildcats. The 6 x 45 (6mm on the .223 case) and 6mmARTurbo are some screamers. While I would rather have the .30AR or the 6.5 in all reality for the Mulies, the 6mm is not totally out of the argument to me.

Then again, you could wait maybe a few months and try out a .450 Corvette. :D
 
In an AR-15 (not the AR-10 size rifle) you have the 6.5 Grendel and the 6.8 SPC as options. I use the 6.8 and I will say that in the hands of an expert it's a 450 yard deer round. I have seen it done a few times at just about 400 yards, but for 400 to 550 the 6.5 is probably a bit better. For close range to about 250 I give the vote to the 6.8 over the 6.5, but that's only by a slim margin. I would not say either one is good at longer ranges because flight characteristics are not the same as bullet performance on game animals. The 6.8 is not so good past 500 and the 6.5 is no better at killing at 450 and out even if it’s easier to hit with. If you want to shoot at 500 or more keep using your 270 Winchester.

The 6.5 has a very good selection of accurate bullets, but most seem to be geared for target use, not hunting. I have seen the 6.5 used now on 14 antelope and deer. I have not killed anything with the 6.5 Grendel myself, but I hunt with 3 men that use ARs I made in that caliber.

I do have a LOT of experience with the 6.8 on both deer and antelope in my own kills and also the kills I have seen from 9 other men I made guns for in that caliber As of now we have a bit over 100 kills with the 6.8 and only 14 with the 6.5 so the comparison may be a bit unfair. But with what I have seen so far I still prefer the 6.8 over the 6.8 for hunting.

The 300 Whisper/Fireball/Blackout (or what ever you want to call the shell) is not quite as good as a 30-30 Winchester but for the fact it can use better flying bullets (spitzers) but it's still not a good option for 400 yard shots on deer.

The 458 SOCOM and the 50 Beowulf are fine if you are super good at ranging the target. They are in the same league as the 45-90 Sharps and the 50-140 Sharps, so long range power is no problem at all, but range is critical because they do NOT shoot flat.

If you use the Nosler 60 grain Partition bullet in the 223 you will have good results if you shoot well, but I do not think I would try a 400 yard shot with it. Maybe 300 at the most, and I'd feel better shooting 250 or less.

Now if you go to the AR10 size rifles you can have about any shell based on the 308 Winchester so at that point you have no problems with longer shots. 243, 260, 7-08 308 and 338 Federal are all good for deer at about any practical range.
 
Thanks guys, the 6.5 grendel and 6.8 SPC were my top two before I posted this. Now I'm pretty sure I want to move ahead with the grendel, just got to convince the wife it's money we'll spent. A good friend of mine is an armament tech in the army so i will go to him for assistance building it. Thanks again
 
6.5G is probably the safest choice.

The 30AR is cool, but you would have to do some machine work to build an upper for it as Remington dropped it.

I guess you could consider the 6.5PCC. It is a supported wildcat with barrels and dies available based on the .223 case. Just a barrel and everything else is normal stock .223 based parts. It loses 150 fps or so to the 6.5G, but it will cost a tad less to build your own and at worst, you are out the price of barrel and dies ($400) if you don't like it.
 
.308 all day long. I still dont see buying a 6.8 or 6.5 over a .308 platform AR. Hell I would prefer a .243 AR to either of those just for ammo cost and availability.
 
AR-15 platform is about 2.5 pounds less than the AR-10 platform. If you sit in a tree stand, not a big deal. I cover 10 to 15 miles daily hunting here in Colorado. Every ounce is felt.
 
I've got several rifles in 6.8, but it drops below my personal threshold of 1,000 ft lbs of energy at ~300 yards. I checked the 6.5 Grendel on the 123 gr A Max and it's just at 1,058 ft lbs at 400 yards.

Buzzcook mentioned the .243 WSSM. Olympic makes uppers in both that as well as .25 WSSM and they've also created the .300 Olympic SSM by necking the case up and HSM created dies for it if you reload. I've talked to shooters with the .243 WSSM upper and they liked them. Seemed to have no problem feeding despite that sharp shoulder.

I understand your reluctance in the AR-10 platform if you are hiking for muleys. They are heavy compared to the AR-15. I own one in .308. No doubt the chamberings would be better for your intended quarry at range, but lugging that weight would be a pain after a while!
 
I think Buzzcook is closest. 243 wssm is a hardy choice.
Why not 25 wssm?
You get 25-06 ballistics out of an AR platform.

Instead of wondering if your 6.8 or 6.5 is 'enough gun,' you would have enough. I've never heard of anyone drawing a bead on a deer with a 25-06 stop to wonder if were good to go.

my 2 c.
 
i live in Nebraska and hunt whitetails with bow only but harvesting one with an AR would be fun.

globemaster3/MarkCO: you hit the nail on the head, I hunt muleys in Colorado, and we hike into an area (on BLM) where no one else seams to go, but that means a hell of a hike. Carrying the 308 would get old after awhile.

The AR10 is by far what I want to own, but not for spot and stalk right now.

A couple of you have mentioned the .243 wssm and also the 25 wssm, I'm not that educated on AR15 platforms guns (that's why I'm here) are these a GOODoption for AR15 platform, feed/malfunction issues?

thank you all for your time and info I appreciate it. I hope to decide soon. (Only 12 months until next muley season in CO).
 
4x4:
A couple of you have mentioned the .243 wssm and also the 25 wssm, I'm not that educated on AR15 platforms guns (that's why I'm here) are these a GOODoption for AR15 platform, feed/malfunction issues?
Click to expand...

I did a lot of research when I was looking for an antelope stopper this past summer (Caveat: This is my research and is only as good as my Google-Fu abilities, so...). I was trying to decide whether to buy a 6.5G, 6.8SPC, or other AR upper to take with me this year or to buy a 260REM or 25-06 bolt action. In the end, I bought a 260 REM bolt action b/c it will also throw heavier 140gr bullets, so I can use it as my brother-in-law rifle for elk/deer if he visits. He's not so much of an AR guy. I can also use it with small grain bullets as a starter rifle for my kids, if they become so inclined.

Here was my reasoning concerning ARs.
I'm not a good enough shot to shoot past 400 yards no matter what scope I have.
6.5 and 6.8 are about equal to the task up to 400 yards. 6.8 has more wind drift. 6.5 carries more energy. Either will have enough energy to kill an antelope (or deer) at that distance.
25wssm has more energy than either and beats their ballistics at 400 yards.
25wssm uppers are more expensive. They usually have longer barrels (at least 18") and are a bit heavier uppers than 6.8 (lightest) or 6.5G (heavier than 6.8, usually). This can be alleviated to some degree by fluting the barrel. I didn't expect to be humping this AR uphill and down as I would when hunting elk/deer, so weight wasn't the most important concern. I am aware of only 2 companies make 25wssm uppers: Oly and ... another company out of Minnesota whose name escapes me. Both seem to get good reviews.

Most of the complaints about wssm cartridges is that they are hard to find. I don't think Winchester will stop making WSSM in the near future, but neither do I expect Fed or Hornady to pick up that baton in the near future. 6.5 and 6.8 are about $1/bang for hunting ammo. 25wssm is more but not completely ridiculous. By all accounts, maximum performance for 25 wssm is reached by handloading, but that is true of all cartridges, so that is a wash. I don't intend to handload. If feeding is an issue, that would drive me batty. I have low expectations, but a semi-auto rifle should work between shots 1 and 2 w/out any thinking or praying on my part.

I was looking for a hunting-specific upper. I wasn't going to use it for target contests or home defense. I expected to put 20-30 rounds out of it per year.

ymmv. Good luck hunting!
 
^^ You make some good points. I've shot a lot of Pronghorn over the years, from a .40 Super at 60 yards to a .260 (my favorite) at 680 yards, and they are certainly a different quarry than deer, which to me, reasonably takes one from the AR to the bolt.

When the platform may be called to serve dual roles, the AR does shine in some respects. I shot a deer with an AR-10 (Yes, and actual Armalite and in .308) several years ago, just because I could, but it has never been my first choice. Given the "relatively" shorter distances for deer asked for by the OP (400 yards and in), I really don't see the need to pop for the WSSM when there are more "available" and affordable options.
 
I am a fan of the AR15 platform and own more of them than I do hunting rifles and in multiple calibers but IMO it isn't a platform that is particularly good at what you want to do.

None of the available calibers are ideal or even particularly good for a 400 yard deer rifle.
The advantages of the platform, a modular semi-auto, aren't really utilized as a deer rifle.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top