Which .357 Magnum cartridges for PP?

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m3bullet

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I'm looking to identify "one of the best" commercial .357 Magnum cartridges for personal protection use in 6" S&W Model 586s. I've been shooting middle grain rounds, Winchester X357SHP Silvertips (145gr) and Fiocchi 357E SJHP (148gr), for about a year and have confidence that both are accurate, controlable, and reliable for my use.

However, my curiosity has me wondering whether there is something better after reading the rave review of the Remington and Federal 125 grainers in one of this month's handgun magazines (I don't remember which one, I was at Borders). These rounds have significant histories and much of this article's conclusion is based on the reported "stopping power" during actual law enforcement use.

I've never shot these 125 grainers and was wondering how the 14X grainers I'm shooting compare regarding "stopping power"? Any guidelines and rules of thumb regarding selection, 125 vs 14X? Is there any significant performance difference in these loads?

For reference, the manufacturers' numbers for these SJHPs:

Remington R357M1 125gr 1450fps/583ft-lbs
Federal C357B 125gr 1450fps/580ft-lbs

Federal C357H 140gr 1360fps/575ft-lbs
Fiocchi 357E 148gr 1500fps/720ft-lbs
Winchester X357SHP 145gr 1290fps/535ft-lbs
 
For self defense use I load my 6" Python and Ruger SP101 with Remington 125gr SJHP. Recoil and muzzle blast from the Python is okay but in the little SP101 it's a handful. I've heard that they have highest 1 shot stop record.
 
taco is correct; the R-P 125g bullet/cartridge is (almost) the best..........

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
I think the 125 semi-jacketed hollowpoint is the best all around.
Lighter or heavier might be better in either long or short barrels but the 125 rules.
Check out the Stopping Power Homepage for results of actual shootings.

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He who dares wins.
NRA Life Memeber
 
I'd stay away from anything heavier than 125gr due to overpenetration. The heavy 158gr rounds will blow right through a person at close range. The goblin will be dead, but so will anyone behind him. For what it's worth, I keep R-P 110gr JHP's in my SP101.

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Never do an enemy a minor injury. Machiavelli
"Stay alive with a 45"
 
This thread is particularly interesting, since I have three .357 magnum revolvers (two Smith 627 "N" frames with five-inch barrels and a Ruger GP100 with a four-inch barrel), which are my primary defensive weapons. I realize I am not conforming to the common wisdom, but I load 158 grain Federal HydraShok as my defensive round.

My rationale follows (and I would appreciate experts "setting me straight" where I'm wrong). Rapidly disabling a target is a function of accuracy (most important), penetration, and expansion. I will not discuss accuracy, since it is not germane to m3bullet's thread.
> Expansion, in a .357 hollow point, appears to vary with bullet design and with VELOCITY; for .357 magnums revolvers having a four (or more) inch barrel, I believe you achieve plenty of velocity to ensure expansion, even with multiple layers of clothing to clog the hollow point.
> Penetration is a function of bullet design, velocity, and MASS. Therefore, the greater weight of the 158 grain round (versus the 125 grain load) should provide enhanced penetration.

I agree "carry through" is a serious issue, however, I suspect it is a real question for any .357 magnum round.

All this said, why not the 158 grain HydraShok?
 
Forgetting penetration for the moment. Isn't recovery time faster with a less massive bullet? Also, wouldn't muzzle flash be a real issue, considering that most situations occur at night? What is the cartridge/muzzle flash pecking order?
 
See my comments in this thread:
[Link to invalid post]

Your first concern in a personal protection gun is wounding ability and reliability. Muzzle flash is secondary, followed by "overpenetration" which is determined more by the specific circumstances of the situation and whether or not you even make solid hits.
And I would look at the ammunition performance data at http://www.firearmstactical.com in addition to the Marshall/Sanow study. It's a lot more scientific.
 
Well the way I see it....and no this really has nothing to do with the topic......but if a BG is shot with a .357 magnum at close range and for defensive shooting close range is correct, I really don't think he will care if the bullet was 125, 145, or 158.

Having said that, I prefer the remington 125 myself as the penetration is negligible and the light bullet allows for faster follow up shots. At least in my hands.

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Compromise is not an option

"Semper Fidelis"
 
m3bullet--
If you want to use full magnum loads in your six-inch revolvers, either the Rem or Fed 125 JHPs would serve you very well.
One alternative---
When I used a .357 four-inch for home defnse, I kept it loaded with two R-P .38 Spl 158 gr. SWCHP +P up first, and then four full-house magnum RP 158 JHP. Idea was that the lower velocity .38s would be far more controlable, with lower flash, and would PROBABLY solve the poblem to begin with. Then, if I was dealing with Godzilla on PCP, the full-weight magnums should at least allow me to get to a REAL SERIOUS gun.

dbrowne1--The earlier string you show is indeed right on point for this discussion. Others have made most of the points I would have addressed.

ALL---Take any information published by Marshall and Sanow with a grain of salt. I'm sure it cannot ALL be fabricated, but it is all anecdotal, and they refuse to submit case histories for independant review by reputable crime labs. Yes, M&S refer to other labs, but nothing is independantly published corroborating them. Look up the FirearmsTactical site referenced by dbrowne1. Other sources also available on the web.

ALL---Speaking of overpenetration--Can any one here provide me with ANY documented case of a bullet striking a hostile person, exiting, and going on to do damage to a non-combatant? I understand this is a very different matter than penetration of structurs by bullets that MISS their target.

Best,
RR

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---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---

[This message has been edited by Rocky Road (edited July 29, 2000).]
 
the 125 JHP's or SJHP's at full power are considered to be the self defense cartridge/load that all others are judged by. i use them to the exclusion of all other loads in my .357's. i prefer to Remington 125 SJHP's due to the consruction of it's jacket and the amount of exposed lead at the bullet's tip. this insures expansion even if the hollowpoint is plugged with cloth or hair ect.
having said that it is worthwhile to take a look at the variuos full power loadings of the 110 grain JHP's on the market. they seem to produce less muzzle flip in snubbies and 3 inch .357's than the full house 125 grain loads do. in law enforcement shootins they did very well unless they encountered an object such as an upper arm ect. on the way to the chest.
i tend to rather take the sightly greater flip of the 125 grainers and shot with more confidence. i do not go to heavier bullets unless i am hiking or in the woods where i have to conceal my weapon. in that case i switch to an 158 grain SJHP or an 180 grain hard cast SWC. these loads will take large game at reasonable distances and will do for survival hunting of deer and defense on ferrel dogs and black bear.

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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
 
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