Where to get an action

Smokey Joe

New member
Thinking to build a super-accurate hunting .30-'06 tack-driver. Know where to get a bbl. put on it, also where to order a stock, Timney trigger, etc. The problem is, I haven't a handy source of an action (Not interested in ordering a brand-new one and paying full retail.) Any suggestions as to what action to use, and where to get hold of it? Am leaning toward a military Mauser or Rem 700, but will cheerfully consider others.

(Note: I have a nice 1 1/2 MOA hunting rifle. This one is for < 1/2 MOA, pref. 1/4. I intend to stop my quest when I can put 10 in one hole. I know the deer won't know the difference, but I will.)

Thanks in advance for your help. TFL has been a great source :) for me.
 
Smokey, ask this question again over at Benchrest Central - that's www.benchrest.com - And you may want to revise your definition of "super accurate tack driver."

You're not going to get that kind of accuracy out of a military-grade Mauser action. Lock time is too slow, etc... Plus, you'll also run into fun getting an accuracy-level gunsmith to work on it... There's ordinary gunsmiths who can screw on a barrel, cut a chamber, etc., and there's gunsmiths that do benchrest quality work...

Best bet for an action, provided you don't have a spare 700 around, is to just go down to Wally World, and pick up a Remington 700... Then send it off to someone like Speedy Gonzales, Jim Borden, Dave Tooley, etc., and have them true it up (VERY important) and chamber a select match-grade hunting contour barrel for it. You may also want to have them flute it (weight reduction) while you're at it... If you want to go with a Savage action, Paul Dorsey does fine work.

Throw the stock away, and call Kelly McMillan, and order one of their hunting stocks. They do excellent stuff. For the trigger, go with one of Arnold Jewell's... Far better than a Timney, and not that much more cash.

This will cost you, but accuracy = $$...

And FWIW, unless you're planning on playing with bullets over 165 grains, go with a .308 - easier to "tune" for accuracy than the .30-06... But if you're not hung up on the .30-06, you should also consider calibers like the 6/284, 6.5/284 (talk to Bill Shehane about this one) and the .308 Baer...
 
Oh yeah - almost forgot - You might want to give Bob White a call (he's the guy who runs Shooter's Corner) - He deals in used accuracy rifles... You may be able to pick up a reworked Remington for a lot less than it'd cost to have one built.
 
Tackdriver: a relative term

Bogie: Thanx much for the good thoughts.

Yeah, I know a benchrester would laugh @ calling any accuracy under about 1/10 moa "tackdriving". I was thiniking of taking this rifle afield and hunting with it, without having to use one of those golf-cart things the bench resters use, or maybe hiring a gunbearer. They don't have those even in Africa any more, do they?

I was aware when I started on this that it wouldn't be cheap. But if I just wanted an ordinarily accurate rifle, I could just buy a Weatherby or something, and be done with it.

Nobody has 700 actions just laying around, eh? And that is the one I want?

Again, thanx for the help!
 
Tackdriver: a relative term

Bogie: Thanx much for the good thoughts.

Yeah, I know a benchrester would laugh @ calling any accuracy under about 1/10 moa "tackdriving". I was thiniking of taking this rifle afield and hunting with it, without having to use one of those golf-cart things the bench resters use, or maybe hiring a gunbearer. They don't have those even in Africa any more, do they?

I was aware when I started on this that it wouldn't be cheap. But if I just wanted an ordinarily accurate rifle, I could just buy a Weatherby or something, and be done with it.

What is the reputation of Krieger barrels among the accuracy crowd? Krieger will do the action and bolt truing when they install a bbl.

Nobody has 700 actions just laying around, eh? And that is the one I want? BTW, how do I contact Shooters CornerÑthat sounds like a gunsmith shop, not a website.

Again, thanx for the help!
 
1. Weatherby's aren't all that accurate. Pretty, but not that accurate... And their triggers aren't the "remington 700" style - There's LOTS of good triggers out there for the 700...

2. A Krieger barrel is nice - good choice. But I'd have a benchrest smith do the work. Why? You want a hunting rifle with varmint accuracy, right? How much does Krieger want to true the action and screw in the barrel? (FWIW, once you've got a trued action, it is EASY to use other barrels... just need a barrel vise and an action wrench). An accuracy smith is likely to be comparable. Mine charges about $400 for a chambered frozen Shilen Select Match for my Panda. Not sure how much a 700 truing job would run...

You're also going to want a neck tight enough that you're going to have to turn your brass for consistency. You DO handload, right? You ain't gonna get 1/4 (or even 1/2) MOA without doing that. Figure a Redding sizing die, and probably a Wilson straight-line seater.

My 6PPC/22PPC/6BR bench rifle weighs 10.5 pounds, with scope. The 3" wide forearm isn't the most comfy thing for offhand shooting tho... My heaviest rifle is a Savage 12BVSS-S that weighs about 17-18 pounds.

Kelly McMillan (you may recognize the name?) does VERY nice hunting-type stocks with benchrest-quality tolerances.

Go to www.benchrest.com, and look through the lists of folks who sell complete rifles - Shooters Corner is in there. There's a bunch of accuracy smiths there too... Way I see it, you may spend another coupla hundred, but in the large scheme of things, you'll be sure of getting your money's worth...

And maybe think about other calibres (also, if you start with a LONG barrel, and you decide you don't like something, you can cut it off and start over...). Not sure about the availability of "good" brass for the .30-06, but I know that there's good stuff out there for the .308 (Lapua) and the 6/284 or 6.5/284 (Norma and Lapua, I think). If your brass isn't consistent, why bother?

The boltface size you start with also matters, assuming you're using a remington-style action. With a Savage, you can change the bolt faces, but with the "normal" type of action, you're stuck unless you want to buy a complete new bolt... The .30-06 face will also hold a .22-250, .308, .270, .284, etc., and the .300 Win Mag will also hold the 7mm mag, etc...

Is this going to be a "beanfield" deer rifle? You may want to SERIOUSLY think about the 6.5/284...

There is a very nice centerfire forum at www.benchrest.com. Ask around, and you might be surprised.

Check out the following folks. They've all got SERIOUS reputations in accuracy, and will NOT do you wrong.

Bob White: http://benchrest.com/shooterscorner/

Mickey Coleman: http://www.colemanrifles.com/

Bill Shehane: http://www.scopeusout.com/

Jim Borden: http://www.bordenrifles.com/

Clarence Hammonds (he did a muzzle brake for me - very nice) http://benchrest.com/hammonds/

Ron Hoehn (he does my chambering): http://benchrest.com/hoehn/

Speedy Gonzales: http://www.sgyrifles.com/

Col. Billy Stevens (ret) - he fluted my favorite 6PPC barrel that Hoehn chambered...: http://benchrest.com/stevens/

Dave Tooley: http://www.tooleyrifles.com/

Clay Spencer: http://benchrest.com/spencer/
 
New Mauser Actions

If you want to go the Mauser route, KBI is importing a Mauser action under the Charles Daly line that is suppose to be the same as the Interarms of the past. There was an brief couple of paragraphs in a fairly recent issue of either Rifle or Handloader (I posted what issue a couple or three weeks ago, but have since passed the magazines on - might do a search for the month of the exact issue). They are selling four different actions - 22-250 - 308, 30-06, a short, and a long magnum. Check with your gunshop/supplier on price and availability. Brownell's and RSR are the only to wholesalers that I have heard that will be handling the actions. I have six actions that are scheduled to arrive by the end of the week. I will let you know about them when they arrive.
 
Good Advice...So Far

Good sources cited above for the launching paltform;). Putting one together or having someone do the job for you (for boo-coo$)
will occupy your time and effort for quite a while:) .
And when that's all neatly done and deliverd, you get to work on the loads the thingy will shoot straight with, and the sighting systems yoe want to have mounted so that you can see what you are shooting at.:D

Good Quest...Keep us informed of your progress.

BTW: if you _ever_ find out how to stop the "1-in-5 Syndrome, Please post your findings...I've been looking for _that_ solution for about 3 decades:eek: :D
 
Driving Tacks; Tack Drivers

Boogie, Crimper, CrisÑThanx much for all your good words. I will check out the websites suggested. Would have already but have been Christmas shopping.

To address or respond to or re-question some of the issues you've raised (earliest first):

1. Krieger is willing to work on a military Mauser action. I just started this quest; what the h*** do I know? Oh, I do know that Ti firing pins are available that help the lock time for military. But, my current main weapon is a sporterized '03-A3 (original bbl and firing pin, though). Have never noticed any hesitation after squeezing the TimneyÑit goes bang very promptly. But again, what do I know? I've never shot a seriously accurate centerfire rifle. Did shoot target .22, 'way back when high schools had rifle teams. If a Rem. 700 action is truly preferable to military, so be it. Why Rem. 700, or Savage (that'd be the 110 I'm guessing) as opposed to a Win. M70?

2. Just went to Wally's World tonightÑThey want $400 plus for a Rem 700. Wally won't order just an action. I suppose the cosmetics don't matter a bit. Do I want blued or stainless, or does that also not matter? Will check to see if just the action can be special-ordered from Rem.

3. New stock, or serious modification on the original, almost goes w/o saying. I'm a little on the tall, long-armed side.

4. I do plan to shoot bullets mostly of 165 gr or so, but up to 180's for the rare elk trip. .30-'06 is what I'm used to is why I started with it. Give me sound reasons to go elsewhere if they exist. .308 looks to be a step down from the grand old cartridge. Never heard of those other calibers you mentioned, but then, once again, WTHDIK?

5. Was just using Weatherby as an example of expensive off-the-shelf rifles that are certainly more than "good enough" if that's what you want.

6. Krieger wants $100 to true the bolt and action. They check before starting to see if it needs it. With a military Mauser, the helpful person I talked with said "plan on it". They want another $175 to install a barrel. I think that means a complete installation, with chamber reamed out to spec and headspaced.

7. I probably will never see a Texas beanfieldÑhave read of that kind of huntingÑwe're talking 400+ yds. here are we not. I don't expect the deer I shoot to be more than 200 yd away if that, but being able to knock off a gnat's whisker at twice that would be impressive, wouldn't it? And the elk will be at what distance?

8. 'Course I handload, but never said. To date, have just sorted brass, neck sized (Lee collet die), & kept each lot for a particular weapon. Have a single stage RCBS, take my time and do each step right. Was expecting to start all over again with a new gun. But I like fooling around of that sort.

9. I was aware that one advantage to an '06 is the variety of cases of the same base diameter. And my '06 I can shoot all day. Don't think I want to go to a belted magnum, but these new short, and/or non-belted magnums are intriguing. No experience with 'em though. I'm not crazy about getting whomped in the shoulder a buncha times at a range session. A friend has a Wby .300 mag that I loathe. He thinks he needs it for whitetail deer. He doesn't shoot much. (He has me shoot it to see if it's him or the gun with a problem. It's always been him.)

10. A commercial Mauser is different from a military Mauser? And OK to build a tackdriver on? Sorry for the dumb questions, they're easier and less expensive than dumb mistakes. Happy to consider one if it'll do the job. The Mauser name, of course, is one to conjure with.

11. Bolt welding on a military, bbl. installation, chamber reaming, headspacing, etc, I was planning to hire done; I'm not a metal-worker. Or is there less to it than I'm thinking? Was expecting to do some work on the stock myself. I REALLY don't want to take a $400 action and another $400 in parts, and painstakingly assemble a $75 gun. (My round numbers. The last figure is the only important one here.)

12. The several-shots-one-hole quest? I started that as a teenager. I'm in my 50's. Thanks, I'm not looking for a cure. Frankly, some of the stops along the way have been quite enjoyable. And the people you meet, and the help you get? Well, you guys are doing what shooters do, and I thank you.

Will keep y'all posted.
God Bless America
ÑSmokey Joe
 
So, ask the dang question on www.benchrest.com - Haven't seen it yet... You don't have to register or anything...

$100 is about right to true up an action... Maybe a little more - Not sure... If I were having a Rem700 action done, I'd probably get Speedy to do it.

The $175 is about what you'd pay a benchrest gunsmith for the chambering job... Or did Krieger say that'd also include the barrel? If so, I doubt you're getting a match-grade... Their match barrel blanks run about $200. And if you get it fluted, that's a bit more... Fluting is good on a hunting rifle - lets you have more barrel with the same weight.

I'd go with the match barrel and a benchrest smith. There's a WORLD of difference between doing it to SAAMI spec and checking that the "no go" gauge doesn't chamber, and doing it to "zero tolerance." These guys think that 10,000th of an inch is big... It'll maybe cost a bit more, but in the long run, you'll see the accuracy. And that's what this is about, right?

It's also okay to go with a used action... It's gonna go in the lathe anyway... Check with Bob White - Tell him Bogie sent you.

You can swap barrels! If you want this to be your LAST rifle, it could be... If I want a 6/284, I call and tell 'em, and I can screw the sucker in and shoot it... If I want a .30-06, ditto... Vise cost me $40, and the wrench (I got the nice one) was $60. Same boltface...

.30-06 handles a 180 better than the .308, but with everything below, the .308 is darn near as fast, and more accurate. I load my .308 with 180 grain Noslers at about 2,500 fps.

Accuracy is what counts - you ain't gonna scare bambi to death just by missing... Consider some of the "wildcat" calibres... This is YOUR rifle - see what it can really do... Keep in mind that those little girls who've been whuppin' butt up at Camp Perry in the long distance competitions have been shooting 6.5/284 rifles... They're VERY popular with the 1K distance shooters. Those are NOT "wimpy" target loads - not to be accurate at that distance - they're more than capable of taking an elk...

Say you're taking a $400 action. Add $500 for truing and a chambered match-grade barrel (if Kreiger's was charging $275 total, that's a bit more $$, but you'll have a MUCH better barrel...). You can add a new stock at your leisure, and you can replace the trigger at your leisure (I now think that a 1-pound trigger is kind of heavy - I'm so darn used to my 1.5 oz Jewell...). A box of good brass will cost you in the area of $50 or so (buy the good stuff! You won't even have to sort it...). Get the .30-06, and then next year, add a .22-250 or a 6/284 barrel...

Oh yeah... The rifle WILL get a Leupold, right?
 
Oh yeah - even with the titanium firing pin, you're still looking at LONG lock time on the Mauser...

For the Winchester M70, I think they make great "dangerous game" hunting rifles, and they're really pretty, but I think the Remingtons accurize a bit better...
 
What is nice about the comercial actions is the bolt is bent, has an adjustable trigger, is drilled and tapped, etc., so you are not out the expense of purchasing specialized tools or having to pay someone for the specialized work. If you know someone who has an action wrench and barrel vice, you can purchase a short chambered barrel, rent a reamer and gauges, put the metal together yourself, and either go the slow rust blue process or farm the work out to someone who has the hot blueing set-up. Then all that remains is the stock which can also be done from the traditional wood, which I perfer because of the beauty, or you can buy some type of "pre-fit" synthetic. If you go the wood route, purchase the blank from a reputable someone that can inlet, then you can finish yourself. "Building a Custom Mauser" from AGI might be a good purchase to give you an idea of all that is involved.

I currently have three stocks, a maple, a walnut, and a honey locust, that have been inleted, 2 for '96's and one for a '98, awaiting shaping, bedding, sanding, and finishing. Now it is just finding the time to complete. I have also purchased two of the new mauser actions in mag length, which also means I don't have to open the bolt face, re-work for feeding, etc., to build a .416 Taylor and a .458 WM on and am awaiting their arrival. I am looking for the wood for these two now - something heavy possibly persimmon or honey locust that was cut from our own place-YTBD. If I ever get any of these complete, I will post pictures.
 
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