where doe rudeness begin?

R

Rifleman1776

New member
Standing in line at the sporting goods counter in our local Wal-Mart yesterday I noticed the fellow in line ahead of me was attempting to buy a gun. I also noticed he had a very thick British accent. A nice converstation ensued while the WM employees were stumbling over themselves trying to figure out how to sell a gun. Anyhow, he was buying a bolt action 30-06. He asked for ammunition. The clerk told him there were 150 gr., 165 gr. and 180 gr. choices. He choose the 180. I told him that for our local deer I used only 150 gr. and it works very well. He said he wanted more "punch" so they wouldn't run off. Here was where I faced a conundrum. He obviously did not know much about modern guns since he had been in the U.S. only a short period of time. I wanted to tell him the 180 was built stouter than a 150 and would more likely go through the deer without expanding than the 150 and, thusly would probably give a higher chance of the deer running off wounded than if hit with an expanding 150. I didn't push the issue but feel badly that I might have been able to help him make a better choice. But I also felt it would have been rude to pursure the point.
What say the jury?
 
It seems like you offered advice and he dismissed it, so I’d say you did what you could to inform him. Also, keep in mind we spend pages on this forum debating ballistics, so just because he didn’t take your advise doesn’t necessarily mean he was uninformed he may just disagree.
 
Advice not asked for is seldom heeded or appreciated. The fact that he knew enough that the 180 gr has "more punch" seems to indicate he at least understood the ballistics somewhat. Whether he knew much about hunting is an open question, but then as mentioned above he may have other reasons for it than what he stated to a stranger at a Wal-Mart.
 
Any of those bullets are going to kill a deer dead when a good shot is made and none of them will if a bad shot is made. There's no difference in effectiveness over a 30gr difference in bullet weight fired from the exact same gun.

I wouldn't have bothered offering him any advice at all, as it's unrequested and more opinion than fact. If he WANTED advice, it would have been a cartridge besides .30-06 but that's my opinion too. Telling him to use a 7-08, .270, .243, yada, yada, yada is no more relevant than what bullet to use in a .30-06.

None of my business what he's hunting his deer with, unless he asks, and even when he asks it isn't rude to disregard my advice.
 
Rudeness begins when one butts into someone else's discussion with a sales clerk and tells them the choice they made is wrong.:rolleyes:

Rudeness begins when you think you can make broad assumptions about a persons knowledge, skill and intentions from just standing in line behind them for a few moments.

For every inept salesperson I have come across at the counter of a sporting goods store, I have encountered another customer that thinks they feel the need to tell me a better option to what I am looking at or buying. I'm usually not as polite as the guy with the British accent.
 
I think you could easily find a lot of good healthy debate about your recommendation even among seasoned firearms hunting veterans.
 
For me, a big part of rudeness is bad manners, a harsh overbearing know it all attiitude, and bad language. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.
 
I do agree that accent has bearing on neither knowledge nor aptitude.
It is that initial assumption that led to the feeling of uncertainty that prompted this thread.
Had he been taken as a peer, this post would never have been started.

Nonetheless, I don't see a problem. No harm is chatting with someone about your ammo choice in a shop. It's a common interest after all...

The OP gave his thoughts, the foreign gent responded with what happened to be a different view and there it ended: no harm, no foul.

What may have been meant as advice by the OP could well have just been taken as chit-chat by the other man, and that can be nice when waiting in the queue...
 
Rifleman1776, I agree with the others who think you were making assumptions about the guy. And I also agree that a 30 gr. difference being superior or inferior is not only debatable, but it would barely make much difference in his hunt either way.

Now, if he had been buying .17 HMR to hunt deer with, maybe you should have pressed the issue. But once you made the suggestion of the 150 gr. and he went with the 180 gr. instead, you were right to leave it at that.
 
Anymore, I'm just getting used to the fact that nobody shares my opinions on guns, or generally much else. Heck, my wife will argue with me about the engineering behind something and she has little more knowledge base in that area than what she has gained arguing with me for 20 years! Oh well.

IMNSHO, I think a small to medium sized 1911 CCO or Kahr P series in 40 S&W or 45 ACP is an ideal carry gun. I'm the only person I know who feels this way. . .huh! I tried to explain that a 380 carried in a pocket condition 3 to several folks was just wasting their time. . .guess what, they don't seem to care what I think.

In the end, I find logic rarely rules in decision making.

Now, I do have experience slaying deer with a 30'06. I used 150's, 165's, and 180's. I decided to stick with normal non-premium 180's because they were well suited to my loads from my 30'06, would take an Elk fairly easily, and worked well with my immature ballistics knowledge at the time. At the time, my idea of long range know how was a 200 yd zero, shooting about 3/4 way up a deer at 300 and shooting at just over the top edge of the deer at 400 yds. A 180's bc lends itself to this better than a 150 or 165. I killed a lot of deer that way. Now I range them and twist turrets or hold over with dots to aim. . .more precise that way.
 
Gun shops....

Here's what I say about gun shop or sporting goods transactions/sales;

don't get involved
Unless you see or hear of something grossly unsafe or illegal or unethical, just keep your thoughts, suggestions, feelings or "advice" :rolleyes: to yourself.
Unless a customer asks you directly or you are in the store buying/looking at a item, Id let the store employees do their job(s).
 
1. Don't assume he knows nothing about guns merely because of his accent.

2. Don't assume he is only going to hunt one type of game with said ammo.

3. Don't assume you know more about hunting if you know nothing about the individual.

4. It definitely would have been rude to push the point.

5. 180 will kill a deer just as well as a 150 if you place the shot correctly.
 
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