Where do you draw the line?

WildBill45

New member
Putting so many tactics out there, in public, where do you draw line here to prevent bad guys from being educated to use these same tactics on good guys?

Just wondering? I make videos, and hold back for this reason.

Retired cop, who is concerned...
 
From an old Pittsburgher, mostly the bad guys don't expect you to be armed. They want an easy mark. Personally, I don't really have tactics. I don't expect trouble, I don't cause trouble. I try to be aware of my surroundings, and I hope to identify that rare lethal threat in time. Then it's draw and shoot, and shoot, and shoot...
 
WildBill,

There are a few things I hold back, and only teach in person to people I know are good guys. I do this as a salve to my conscience, not in any reasonable expectation that it matters a damn.

pax
 
You know, I always kinda wondered that myself.

Such as, do they know that you "can't" shoot them in retreat, or "can't" shoot for theft (in come states), or other instances/situations/crimes that you "cannot" shoot them for. The quotations are there for a reason, you very likely can, but is not justified under the law.
 
They are not state secrets that need special handling.

The way I see it, this would be much like restricting all handguns...because the bad guys might use them against the good guys.
 
I don't think that the average bad guy spends much time scanning message boards trying to develop his tactics. I wouldn't worry about it.
 
I don't think that the average bad guy spends much time scanning message boards trying to develop his tactics. I wouldn't worry about it.

+1 these are mostly people who couldn't even be bothered to pay attention in school to learn basic math and reading skills. They're too busy partying, getting high, getting drunk or procreating to study ANYTHING much less study "tactics".

I wouldn't worry about it...
 
I don't think that the average bad guy spends much time scanning message boards trying to develop his tactics. I wouldn't worry about it.

^^ this.

I go with my overall plan of serious reduction in likelyhood that I'll be a victim of the random bad guy. If he's a serious tactics/gun person it's fairly unlikely that I'm going to do much to stop him anyway, so I don't worry about that guy.

I think in general the bad guys aren't usually even gun guys (other than owning a gun). Bad guys practice? Fairly unlikely.
 
I used to have a friend that lived in south Chicago.
He used to go running on weekend mornings with his church group; his church (and running group) had a few ex-gang bangers in them. One morning they ran past a bunch sitting around the stoop of a brownstone minding everyone else's business. A few stood up as they ran past. The ex-gang church members ID'd them as gang members. So, the group ran around the block and ran past them again to show that they weren't afraid of them (think "take back the streets"). Anyhow, as they passed the second time, ALL of the thugs stood up and started moving to specific positions. The ex-gangsters in the pointed out that the local hoods were preparing to fight them, so church group ran on and decided not to circle again.
Point being: Although, I don't think criminals scan websites looking for pistol fighting tactics nor read von Clausewitz in their spare time, I think that it's a little too simplistic to assume that they are going to run around like chickens with their heads cut off when in a confrontation.
 
Criminals are lazy, that's why they're criminals. They aren't going to take the time to practice your karate chops.

I have seen several surveillance videos of prisoners practicing disarms in the prison yard. You can find them on BluTube if you look.

pax
 
WildBill45 and pax, I think you're doing a disservice to the vast majority of good guys by holding back.

As far as:

Bad guys practice? Fairly unlikely.

Read "New Findings from the FBI about Cop Attackers & Their Weapons"

http://www.stoppingpower.net/commentary/comm_cop_killers.asp

Familiarity:

Several of the offenders began regularly to carry weapons when they were 9 to 12 years old, although the average age was 17 when they first started packing "most of the time." Gang members especially started young.

Nearly 40% of the offenders had some type of formal firearms training, primarily from the military. More than 80% "regularly practiced with handguns, averaging 23 practice sessions a year," the study reports, usually in informal settings like trash dumps, rural woods, back yards and "street corners in known drug-trafficking areas."

One spoke of being motivated to improve his gun skills by his belief that officers "go to the range two, three times a week [and] practice arms so they can hit anything."

In reality, victim officers in the study averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required, and that was mostly in competitive shooting. Overall, the offenders practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and this "may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills," the study says.

The offender quoted above about his practice motivation, for example, fired 12 rounds at an officer, striking him 3 times. The officer fired 7 rounds, all misses.

More than 40% of the offenders had been involved in actual shooting confrontations before they feloniously assaulted an officer. Ten of these "street combat veterans," all from "inner-city, drug-trafficking environments," had taken part in 5 or more "criminal firefight experiences" in their lifetime.

One reported that he was 14 when he was first shot on the street, "about 18 before a cop shot me." Another said getting shot was a pivotal experience "because I made up my mind no one was gonna shoot me again."

Again in contrast, only 8 of the 50 LEO victims had participated in a prior shooting; 1 had been involved in 2 previously, another in 3. Seven of the 8 had killed offenders.

Also "Shooting Style" and "Hit Rate" subheadings are very interesting where tactics go out the window.

Twenty-six of the offenders [about 60%], including all of the street combat veterans, "claimed to be instinctive shooters, pointing and firing the weapon without consciously aligning the sights," the study says.

"They practice getting the gun out and using it," Davis explained. "They shoot for effect." Or as one of the offenders put it: "[W]e're not working with no marksmanship... We just putting it in your direction, you know... It don't matter... as long as it's gonna hit you…if it's up at your head or your chest, down at your legs, whatever... Once I squeeze and you fall, then... if I want to execute you, then I could go from there."

Ed
 
Darn, I was just about to post that report.

Also, if you look at rampage killers - many had training or spent significant range time with their weapons.

As far as training - I've taken classes were techniques to counter typical police moves were only taught to well vetted folks.
 
Ed Jaws,

Everyone does what their conscience allows.

pax

"The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." – Harper Lee
 
I am seriously concerned, as I do believe a lot of thugs do look at these videos. I have a video out that spotlights a young woman shooter who shoots for team Glock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P2cD4498gs

You wouldn't believe the comments people try to post with that one. I Have the settings so I have to approve all comments, and I always go the poster's site and check them out. Some look to be thugs to me, and some are just Perverts, and make perverted comments, both I block. This makes me wonder how many watch other videos, and who may pick up a point or two that could help them hurt someone.

It makes me think, as these young criminals are wired like the rest of the kids. Do not under estimate these thugs, some are very smart. If they got a real job in the real world they may do all right!

I save my special stuff for in person still, and I was very good in Martial Arts, a long time and many pounds ago, but my tactics still apply, and I am very reserved in what to show. Am I wrong? I May be, but I like to error on the side of the good guy's point of view...
 
I thought of Platt and Matix even before I got to Pax's comment. I would think they were more the exception, than the rule for bad guys; however, I may stand corrected.

My question about the opening question is if you draw the line in what you teach, what prevents the next person from teaching what you wouldn't teach? In theory, you can only sequester the knowledge and techniques which you alone possess. That is what you control. If someone else knows – they can use or teach.
 
My question about the opening question is if you draw the line in what you teach, what prevents the next person from teaching what you wouldn't teach? In theory, you can only sequester the knowledge and techniques which you alone possess. That is what you control. If someone else knows – they can use or teach.

serf 'rett, see my first comment in this thread.

Bad guys gonna learn somehow. But I will not be the person who teaches 'em. What you do with your knowledge is up to you and your conscience.

pax

"Nothing strengthens the judgment and quickens the conscience like individual responsibility." – Elizabeth Cady Stanton
 
My question about the opening question is if you draw the line in what you teach, what prevents the next person from teaching what you wouldn't teach?

They don't know it, that is what stops them, and worries me! I am very creative, as are others, and I have developed stuff, and won big competitions with, and survived on the street with, that I do not want home invaders to know, or druggies, etc... That is the nightmare I worry about.

Examples:

Techniques for using space and control that defy convention, and common training, as we all know some training is for the purpose of CYA, and not effectiveness! Those new guys with only CYA training could die, so the Department can spare themselves a law suit. Life and Death requires responses that most may not know, or dare to show!!!
 
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