Where do criminals get their guns?

D

db4570

New member
Where do criminals get their guns? (Let's talk primarily handguns.) To me, it seems like they can get them from a few sources.

1. Stolen from houses, gun shops, trucks, factories, armories.

2. Purchased through a “straw man”.

3. Imported from foreign countries in connection with other illegal stuff, particularly drugs. But where do those guns originate in those countries, which likely have tougher gun laws than we do?

4. Purchased legally in a private sale from someone who required no background check. The notorious “gun show loophole” that anti-gunners squeal about.

I'm probably missing one or two other methods.

I get the impression that it isn't particularly difficult for a criminal to get a gun illegally. Meaning there are probably a lot of them out there. I can't imagine either one of the methods I list being able to provide that much volume.

This is something I have long been curious about. Any thoughts?

David
 
But where do those guns originate in those countries, which likely have tougher gun laws than we do?
Click to expand...
There is a book that does a decent job of explaining how the international illicit arms trade works. One big thing is the ComBloc countries that simply have so many guns that aren't accounted for. They literally find whole warehouses full of guns in Russia people forgot about. They probably find a whole lot more empty warehouses. Some small countries, or actors within their government, purchase guns using their credentials just to turn them on the black market. The CIA has been tied to a whole lot of the guns floating around Latin America. Such guns are brought into Mexico by the shipping container full almost daily for the cartels. That is a lot of volume.
 
1. Stolen from houses, gun shops, trucks, factories, armories.

Yes this way

2. Purchased through a “straw man”.

This is too much work and too much at risk for all parties. I would guess this is a very small %

3. Imported from foreign countries in connection with other illegal stuff, particularly drugs. But where do those guns originate in those countries, which likely have tougher gun laws than we do?

The majority in addition to stolen. I would assume that most gun crimes were with guns purchased from the local drug dealers. If I were a bad guy, this is what I would do. All of the rest of the options put me at too much risk and are too much work. This is the easy way.

4. Purchased legally in a private sale from someone who required no background check. The notorious “gun show loophole” that anti-gunners squeal about.

Probably little to none. This is too much work and you dont want normal people identifying you.
 
Even if we somehow eliminated all the domestic ways to obtain guns, the rest of the world is overstocked.

Ive never understood the people that are concerned with the Cartels buying guns here in the States. Why would they pay retail for a small quantity of arms, when the same amout of money will buy 10x that many. New in a crate straight off a boat from Guatemala or San Salvador.

There are TOO many guns in the world to ever "control" them. That Genie is out of the bottle
 
The University of Chicago and Duke University surveyed 99 detainees in the Cook County Jail to determine how they obtained their guns. The criminals generally obtained their guns from people they know, usually friends and family. They avoid transactions with strangers, so they do not go to gun shows or contact private sellers. A synopsis of the survey was published in the Chicago Sun-Times:

http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/7/...crooks-get-guns-from-pals-dont-keep-them-long

It's interesting data in light of the constant chatter about the "gun show loophole" and "unlicensed dealers"....
 
At this point you can get the whole paper at:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091743515001486

Weird - I have a .pdf of it saved, with the URL at the top, and the first time I put that link in I got the abstract and directed to a website to pay for access. Tried it again and got the whole paper.

Thanks for the Sun-Times link, it is nice to see a mainstream newspaper publishing even a synopsis.

Fair-use paragraph from the Sun-Times article:

"In a survey of almost 100 detainees in the Cook County Jail, few said they get firearms at gun shows or through the Internet, said Harold Pollack, co-director of the crime lab. They also said they don’t normally steal guns or buy them at a licensed store.

“Some of the pathways people are concerned about don’t seem so dominant,” Pollack said."
 
Thanks for posting the links. There is quite a lot of research on these issues. I suggest we refer to that as compared to speculation.
 
A large portion of them that are used in crimes come from the black market...a source the keeps expanding with each and every new gun regulation and law they pass. Sad thing is that many local cops know exactly where many of these sources are in their AO...but do little or nothing to shut them down due to a myriad of reasons...graft/corruption from above (or to them), because they may need to get a throw-away someday, etc.
 
Where do criminals get their guns? .....

4. Purchased legally in a private sale from someone who required no background check. The notorious “gun show loophole” that anti-gunners squeal about.
Click to expand...

Criminals cannot legally purchase any gun anywhere. If they are acquiring thru a private sale they are committing a crime. If the seller knows they are a criminal, both are committing separate crimes.


Criminals get their guns primarily thru straw purchases and then theft. This is clearly proven in the University of Chicago and Duke University study linked to in this thread.
 
how many did Mexican drug dealers get from the Obama administration the last time? I thought I read a number somewhere of a few thousand.
 
I'll try to find a source later , but it was well known that drug cartels were paying $1000 per gun a few years ago.
 
I think organized crime will tend to get their guns from 'organized' sources, such as smuggling, theft rings, etc. The unorganized bunch such as petty gangs and hoods are going to acquire them on a more ad hoc basis, straw sales, burglary, street buys, and extended 'family'.
 
Here in Utah we have a very large website dedicated to buying and selling firearms. I have bought many firearms over the years from this website. 90% of the time I meet the seller in a random parking lot and hand over cash in exchange for the weapon. No bill of sale and no id check. 10% of the time the seller asks to see my carry permit which I am glad to show. I have never been asked for my DL or a bill of sale.

I can only assume many guns have been purchased by felons on this site seeing how easy it is to buy a firearm and everyone who is interested in guns knows about this website here. As I am typing this there are 3212 firearms for sale on this site.

I am not a criminal but if I were this is the first place I would stop for a gun. Personally I know I will get flamed for this, but I don't think it would be unreasonable to require background checks on private sales like this. Sure it takes an extra 30 minutes to complete the sale and whatever the fee is these days for a NCIS check. I am not sure why so many oppose this. Oh well...
 
The president says... Someone goes to gun shows in Indiana, buys a van load of firearms at high gun show prices, takes them Chicago, and sells them to kids in Chicago for less than the price of a book.
 
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