when to pull?

A

austinr09

New member
just wondering what situation you would have to be in to actually pull your gun on somebody? If someone comes up to you and says give me your wallet or ill beat you up do you pull your gun or try to avoid a fight giving them the wallet? i guess what im asking is at what point are you prepared to use deadly force? does the bad guy have to have a weapon or not?
 
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Once I read a book with a chapter pretty much devoted to this, it said that the guy mugging you is probably more experienced(supposing they were careered criminals) and that is was best to not try to shoot.

It said that a good way to get them off your back was to keep a "mugger wallet", with enough money to satisfy the guy.

Or there is the option of being trained in like, 5 martial arts and kicking the crap out of them.:D
 
I was putting deep thought into this today and talking with a coworker who has his ccw as well. we both couldnt decide whether it was best to let them have said wallet/watch/cell phone or actually pull the gun hoping they turn and run. im not sure I would feel too great later on if i ended someones life over some money in a wallet. obviously if the BG has a weapon its a different story but lets just assume he hasnt presented a weapon.
 
I pull when I've decided there is no other way to deescelate the situation. And I don't pull to show the pistol, I don't say, "I have a gun", I don't point it at you and tell you to put your hands up. If I pull my pistol, I pull the trigger, all other options have been removed from the table.
 
I would only pull if I plan on pulling the trigger. The last thing I want is for some robber to remember that I am carrying and just shoot me from behind and rob me when I am dead.
 
Had a ccw years ago and presently am getting another. Always told myself that in any situation children and wife stay behind me, give them what they want, run if needed, and only draw to fire, and only fire when no other option. Possestions r just that. My life aint worth loosin over anything. And dont think i want to take a life over a cell phone or wallet. But if a weapon is drawn that is a different story. Then he will be taking the chance that i am better and faster. And if my wife is with me he will have another gun to deal with also.
 
If they run off with my TV set from my home, I would not draw and fire, unless I caught them breaking into my home where I would stop them, if I were inside.

If they want my wallet, unless they have the drop on me, I would draw.
Whether I fire or not, is up to them. It depends on what price they are willing to pay to take the wallet. If I am not prepared to protect my person,
my wallet, my life and my family, then I would never have bothered to
obtain a CHL nor would I bother to carry a handgun. But of course some places handguns are not allowed except for police and for criminals.
I prefer living in Texas where I have the right to defend myself and my property. That being said, I won't attempt to outdraw someone who has the drop on me.:)
 
gunnut17: It said that a good way to get them off your back was to keep a "mugger wallet", with enough money to satisfy the guy.

Or there is the option of being trained in like, 5 martial arts and kicking the crap out of them
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Some of us old men are not in shape and too old to defend using martial arts. The mugger wallet might be a good idea, but I have room for only one wallet. I carry both my money, my dl, my permit, my debit/credit cards, as well as my disabled daughter's texas benefit card. I cannot lawfully allow someone else to use her card, so unless they have the drop on me the price for taking it will be higher than they will want to pay, whether they are armed or not. ;)
 
Posted by austinr09: just wondering what situation you would have to be in to actually pull your gun on somebody?
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In most jurisdictions, one may not lawfully "pull a gun on somebody" unless the use of deadly force is justified.

There are some exceptions. In Minnesota and Texas, a firearm may be displayed under circumstances in which force is justified.

If someone comes up to you and says give me your wallet or ill kick your @$$ do you pull your gun or try to avoid a fight giving them the wallet? i guess what im asking is at what point are you prepared to use deadly force? does the bad guy have to have a weapon or not?
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Justification requires immediate necessity, and immediate necessity only exists in the event of an imminent threat by someone reasonably thought to have or exhibit (among other things) the ability to inflict death or serious bodily harm.

That ability can either involve a weapon or something known as a disparity of force. The latter include the following:

  • Male ttacker, female victim
  • Large attacker, much smaller victim
  • Infirm defender, fit attacker
  • Attacker with superior martial arts skills known to the defender
  • Disparity of numbers

Those conditions do not "provide permission" for the use of deadly force; they simply help support a defense of justification.

It's often an uphill fight.

Giving up your wallet is almost always going to be the less costly option by far, but do not let your guard down when doing it.
 
Always know the laws of your state. Use of force varies.

In my state, if I pull my weapon then somebody is going to die, or I'm putting it back in the safe. I'm not in the cop business and I don't have to arrest anybody.

In my opinion, never pull your gun as a warning as it is a great way to get killed.
 
I would modify that post, totaldla, in at least a couple ways.

First, I wouldn't say "somebody is going to die." That could be taken as premeditation to kill. I would say something more on the lines of "I would only draw my weapon if I were prepared to use it, and if I have to use it, I will shoot to stop."

I also wouldn't say a gun can't be used as a warning; there are times when that is legally and morally appropriate. The danger is in assuming that the warning will be all that is needed, or in drawing without being willing and ready to actually employ the weapon should that become necessary.

Bear in mind that statistics indicate 90% or so of defensive gun uses will end with no shots fired; the great majority of cases would not legally or morally justify shooting if the BG ceases his immediate threat, and so a mindset of "I will shoot if I draw" could cause serious problems in around 90% of cases.

That still means there are around 10% odds that if one draws, one will have to fire.
 
Pull the gun immediately ,tell him to back off, then immediately call Cops.
Things can happen very quickly and as long as your gun is holstered you give him an advantage.
Think how many times you have heard of a case where a person gives up his wallet then is murdered ! Do you want to take the chance? Remember more and more BGs are on drugs with violent irrational behavior..
 
Posted by Mleake: I would say something more on the lines of "I would only draw my weapon if I were prepared to use it, and if I have to use it, I will shoot to stop."
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I would put it this way: "I would only draw my weapon if it were lawful to do so and if I were prepared to use it; if I have to use it, I will shoot to stop."

I also wouldn't say a gun can't be used as a warning; there are times when that is legally and morally appropriate.
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In a couple of states a gun may be drawn if force is justified; one other state (Arizona) has a provision for the "defensive display of a weapon."

The danger is in assuming that the warning will be all that is needed, or in drawing without being willing and ready to actually employ the weapon should that become necessary.
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Yes indeed.

Bear in mind that statistics indicate 90% or so of defensive gun uses will end with no shots fired; the great majority of cases would not legally or morally justify shooting if the BG ceases his immediate threat, and so a mindset of "I will shoot if I draw" could cause serious problems in around 90% of cases.
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Well put.
 
OldMarksman: I would put it this way: "I would only draw my weapon if it were lawful to do so and if I were prepared to use it; if I have to use it, I will shoot to stop."
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Thats for sure, because if you pull the weapon you best be prepared to use it, because some of the BG's are high on dope in some cases. So it best not be a bluff. And "if it is lawful to do so", thats the rub. One best know the laws of the state your in. In texas one may use it on a felon or thief when
a felony is committed at night, to prevent their escape. While in another state, that same person who draws the weapon will face prison time.

And even in States like Texas if you shoot an unarmed intruder in your home, you are not allowed to keep shooting him repeatedly once he is no longer a threat. But you are not required to allow him a shot at disarming you in a fist fight before using deadly force.

:)
 
Remember that if you use your gun, even if it is ultimately determined that you were legally justified, you will find yourself involved with the criminal justice system. That is never an easy thing. Depending on the circumstances and how clear your justification was, the experience will run any where from "pretty annoying" to "extremely annoying and expensive" to "horribly stressful, life changing and ruinously expensive."

If you need to use your gun to prevent immediate, otherwise unavoidable death or grave bodily harm to yourself or a loved one, you will have no choice. You will need to act and act decisively. But avoidance is preferable.

Intentional violence against another human (which is what the use of force in self defense is) is not taken lightly by our legal system. Nor should we take it lightly.
 
Great discussion. I just in fact got my CCW, completed a pistol class, even though I thought I might be ok, its been years since I have been interested in arms and shooting and did not think myself safe to carry.

Just today I was thinking of such a scenario, although in my minds role play I tried to work through what I would do if someone threaten me with a lesser lethal force during a hold up than firearms, ie. maybe a BG pulled a knife. I don't think I would pull my firearm even with that before throwing my wallet to the ground below their feet and running as fast as I could while organizing my thoughts about possibly using lethal force.

First the BG has to choose between chasing me or picking up what they would want, the cash. If I gained some distance and the BG went away, no life taken, cancel the charge cards, say bye bye to any cash and all is well. But if the BG then decided to pursue me further... draw, aim and fire.

Of course its all subjective there are so many variables that would be at play.

-Scott
 
Would it be too succinct to say that when to draw is when they make you?

I've drawn a gun 3 times now. Every time it was not a conscious decision, I just drew because of what was happening. A sudden emergency.
 
This sounds like a when can I pull my gun kinda thing

When in fact it should be more of a what exactly is justifiable use of force kinda thing. The fact is that more knowledgeable men than I have written deaths of articles on this very thing.

Rather than quote them or pretend to speak for them I will refer you to one who has been my source on this exact type of information.

Masaad Ayobe has written a few texts that may help the OP. I have read them and took away some useful knowledge.

http://ayoob.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Ayoob&Category_Code=AMAB
 
Push them away, draw and fire. They are committing a felony act against me and I am not sure whether they are going to kill me after they get what they want.

The BG signed his rights away as soon as he threatened me. I have been robbed 3 times before at gunpoint and it is never again going to go down with me giving in and handing my stuff over. Next person that tries to rob me is getting shot at.
 
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