When does round count begin to matter?
- Thread starter Ruger480
- Start date
In my experience if someone knows the actual round count, it isn't enough for me to worry about.
If you are looking at a gun used by someone who used the gun in competition then it might be a factor. Most guns used by hunters and casual shooters never get shot enough to hurt them in a lifetime.
If you are looking at a gun used by someone who used the gun in competition then it might be a factor. Most guns used by hunters and casual shooters never get shot enough to hurt them in a lifetime.
While that is a very compelling question, and I mean that sincerely--
I think it's most likely to be complete BS in far too many instances. Either by outright deception (usually in the manner of having NO IDEA, so they make it up) or just by simple awful memory.
Myself, I have a whole lot of fun keeping round counts, and I keep them exact to the single round. It's something "in" me, I've always enjoyed keeping stats on lots of different things. So when I flip out a round count, it's dead-on accurate.
But unless the seller specifically bought something (new in box!) and had a very specific number of range trips where he knows how many boxes of ammo he put through it, I don't know how the average used gun seller would ever have an accurate count. And frankly, the guy who knows the number of range trips and the number of rounds through it probably only truly knows... if we're talking about a few boxes of ammo. Which I think we can all agree mean very, very little to the life of a gun.
Probably means a lot more to a center fire rifle than, well, anything else.
I think it's most likely to be complete BS in far too many instances. Either by outright deception (usually in the manner of having NO IDEA, so they make it up) or just by simple awful memory.
Myself, I have a whole lot of fun keeping round counts, and I keep them exact to the single round. It's something "in" me, I've always enjoyed keeping stats on lots of different things. So when I flip out a round count, it's dead-on accurate.
But unless the seller specifically bought something (new in box!) and had a very specific number of range trips where he knows how many boxes of ammo he put through it, I don't know how the average used gun seller would ever have an accurate count. And frankly, the guy who knows the number of range trips and the number of rounds through it probably only truly knows... if we're talking about a few boxes of ammo. Which I think we can all agree mean very, very little to the life of a gun.
Probably means a lot more to a center fire rifle than, well, anything else.
In looking at my log very quickly, I picked seven different handguns that each have a round count that has been specifically logged over 2,000 rounds. A couple of those seven are over 4,000 rounds.
I can tell you that if I put each of those six guns in your hands, only -ONE- of them would look, in any way, like it's seen a lot of use. That one is a GSG 1911-22. It is a low cost handgun and it really looks like the manufacturer put all their effort in to the quality of it's functionality and ZERO effort in to the durability of it's finish. It kind of looks like total hell, actually
But it does have over 4,800 rounds with near flawless performance. 
To be fair, one of the others looks a wee bit "less" than new, and that's a circa-1994 Taurus PT-99AF. It's got 2,837 rounds through it, and still runs great.
Even still, your original question is quite compelling. My handguns that do ring up a decent round count usually do so about 100-300 rounds at a time, then they get cleaned. If we're talking about a gun that was in very specific use in competition, I think we'd see FAR more visual clues that it's had an active life, and it would really have a higher, maybe even eye-popping
round count.
I can tell you that if I put each of those six guns in your hands, only -ONE- of them would look, in any way, like it's seen a lot of use. That one is a GSG 1911-22. It is a low cost handgun and it really looks like the manufacturer put all their effort in to the quality of it's functionality and ZERO effort in to the durability of it's finish. It kind of looks like total hell, actually
But it does have over 4,800 rounds with near flawless performance. To be fair, one of the others looks a wee bit "less" than new, and that's a circa-1994 Taurus PT-99AF. It's got 2,837 rounds through it, and still runs great.
Even still, your original question is quite compelling. My handguns that do ring up a decent round count usually do so about 100-300 rounds at a time, then they get cleaned. If we're talking about a gun that was in very specific use in competition, I think we'd see FAR more visual clues that it's had an active life, and it would really have a higher, maybe even eye-popping
round count.g.willikers
New member
It very much depends on the quality and maker of the gun, as well as the kind of ammo that's been used.
Probably more than the round count.
Probably more than the round count.
).Mike Irwin
Staff
Unless someone has certified, verifiable proof of the number of rounds fire, there's really no way of ever being sure how much a gun has been shot.
Some guns that look absolutely new have been fired hundreds of times, but have been cleaned very well...
My thought is that the round count (perceived or otherwise) never really matters.
Some guns that look absolutely new have been fired hundreds of times, but have been cleaned very well...
My thought is that the round count (perceived or otherwise) never really matters.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"So how would you feel if someone said:
For sale S&W 686, $800.00. 6 inch barrel, factory wood grips. Has 15,024rounds through it (accurate count, Sevens is selling this gun).
Any takers? This sale is hypothetical btw. It's just for the sake of the discussion."
Well, I wouldn't be interested. Not because the gun has 15,000 rounds through it, but because it's stainless steel.
For sale S&W 686, $800.00. 6 inch barrel, factory wood grips. Has 15,024rounds through it (accurate count, Sevens is selling this gun).
Any takers? This sale is hypothetical btw. It's just for the sake of the discussion."
Well, I wouldn't be interested. Not because the gun has 15,000 rounds through it, but because it's stainless steel.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Overall condition of the gun is what really matters.
A small number of +P or +P+ rounds can cause more wear and tear on a gun than a much larger number of target loads.
A small number of +P or +P+ rounds can cause more wear and tear on a gun than a much larger number of target loads.
No, but not because of round count. $800 is more than I'd pay for a used 686 regardless of round count. 15,000 rounds wouldn't bother me any more than 1,500. At least with this gun. 150,000 rounds might start causing me to look for a discounted price, but wouldn't necessarily stop me from buying.
Round count is irrelevant to me. Like I'm going to take the word of some person I never met before and actually believe he/she counted every round placed through the gun!
Anyone who's been around guns for some time can look at a gun and tell whether it has only been shot a few times or if several thousand + rounds have been fired through it. Wear areas, areas polished from use, barrel, grips, hammer, sear, rails, finish, etc. all tell the gun's real story. That's what you need to pay attention to.
Anyone who's been around guns for some time can look at a gun and tell whether it has only been shot a few times or if several thousand + rounds have been fired through it. Wear areas, areas polished from use, barrel, grips, hammer, sear, rails, finish, etc. all tell the gun's real story. That's what you need to pay attention to.
Well, I do have a 686. The first handgun I ever bought with my own money, 1989, and I will not be selling it. And as was said, if I were shopping for a 686, I'd be closer to the $600 camp.
All that aside...
If someone were to spend just 60 second sifting through my log, they would have to be one of the world's biggest skeptics to simply throw up their hands and say that I fabricated a number if they actually looked at the log.
It's a MS-Excel spreadsheet and the log portion of it is on line number 2,527 as of this morning.
The first handgun I ever bought with my own money, 1989, and I will not be selling it. And as was said, if I were shopping for a 686, I'd be closer to the $600 camp.All that aside...
If someone were to spend just 60 second sifting through my log, they would have to be one of the world's biggest skeptics to simply throw up their hands and say that I fabricated a number if they actually looked at the log.
It's a MS-Excel spreadsheet and the log portion of it is on line number 2,527 as of this morning.
Machineguntony
New member
Round counts really matter when you start buying NFA machine guns.
I acquired an MP5 and various other machine guns in April of this year. Since the four months, I've probably shot about 15,000 rounds through the MP5. That's probably due to my enthusiasm as a new NFA owner. The first two months accounted for about 10,000 of those 15,000 rounds.
NFA guns are shot like a mad, and I get skeptical when people claim that their gun is a "safe queen" or "like new".
But in a way, the round count doesn't really matter because when you're buying an NFA machine gun, as the saying goes, you're not really buying the machine gun, rather, you're buying the paperwork that allows you to own the MG, and the machine gun just goes along with the paperwork.
This is especially true if you buy a sear gun or an RDIAS. This is the reason why if you buy a sear gun that is already attached, but not married, to a host, the overall cost is cheaper than if you buy a sear or RDIAS and then a host separately. The gun with sear has probably been shot like mad.
BTW, my experience is that people exaggerate their round counts. I have an M60 that had a claimed round count when I purchased it, but the actual round count was much higher, requiring a barrel change. You can buy a gauge that will give you an estimated actual round count.
I acquired an MP5 and various other machine guns in April of this year. Since the four months, I've probably shot about 15,000 rounds through the MP5. That's probably due to my enthusiasm as a new NFA owner. The first two months accounted for about 10,000 of those 15,000 rounds.
NFA guns are shot like a mad, and I get skeptical when people claim that their gun is a "safe queen" or "like new".
But in a way, the round count doesn't really matter because when you're buying an NFA machine gun, as the saying goes, you're not really buying the machine gun, rather, you're buying the paperwork that allows you to own the MG, and the machine gun just goes along with the paperwork.
This is especially true if you buy a sear gun or an RDIAS. This is the reason why if you buy a sear gun that is already attached, but not married, to a host, the overall cost is cheaper than if you buy a sear or RDIAS and then a host separately. The gun with sear has probably been shot like mad.
BTW, my experience is that people exaggerate their round counts. I have an M60 that had a claimed round count when I purchased it, but the actual round count was much higher, requiring a barrel change. You can buy a gauge that will give you an estimated actual round count.
robmkivseries70
New member
I am going to say it is, in general, a function of velocity. High velocity varmit barrels have a useful life in the low thousands. Some military rifles might go well into the 10 of thousands before seeing accuracy degrade. I will concede there are too many unknown factors regarding any used firearm, such that, each case must be weighed on an individual basis.