When Criminals shoot each other (PC statistics)

Oatka

New member
I'd fill up the page with comments, so will just submit this piece of crap to the tender mercies of the TFL readership. ;)
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3962eed10a8f.htm#1

When Criminals Are Shot

When Criminals Are Shot: A Survey of Washington, DC, Jail Detainees

Abstract

Introduction: Criminals are at high risk of being victims of violence, but little is known about their victimization.

Methods: A screen of Washington, DC, detainees found that 1 in 4 had been wounded in events that appear unrelated to their incarceration. Extensive interviews were conducted with 79 men entering the city jail from March through June 1997; the men reported 93 prior events in which they had been shot within the past 5 years.

Results: Eighty-three percent had personally witnessed someone being shot, and 46% had a family member killed with a gun. In the incidents in which they were shot, most were victims of robberies, assaults, and crossfires. The shootings were serious -- 35% were hit by more than 1 bullet, more than 90% went to the hospital, and 40% still had some disability from the wounds. These detainees report being shot by other criminals rather than by law-abiding citizens. Ninety percent would prefer to live in a world without easy access to firearms.

Conclusion: These young men live in a violent world of gunplay. The overwhelming majority would prefer that firearms were not so readily available.

Keywords: wounds, injuries, firearms, guns, criminals

Introduction How often are criminals shot and in what circumstances? Who shoots them? How badly are they wounded and do they seek medical care? Do they typically have permanent disabilities? There is little information about such questions.

Prior surveys have asked criminals about both crime and guns, but the questions have focused on the perpetration of crimes. [1-3] An occasional study has asked inmates about their own victimization, but investigators typically concentrate on victimization that occurred while in prison. [4]

While it is known that many criminals sustain gun-related injuries, [5,6] surveys rarely seek detailed information about the criminal as potential victim.

One criminologist argues that it is not only common for criminals to be shot, but that more criminals are wounded than all noncriminals combined. He implies that the overwhelming majority of these criminals are shot by law-abiding citizens, and that very few of these wounded criminals ever seek professional medical care because doctors are often required to report the treatment of gunshot wounds to the police. [8]

Evidence from respondents in the current study suggests that the vast majority of criminals actually seek and receive professional medical care. [9]

The goal of this study is to provide some empirical evidence, from the criminals themselves, about the gun violence in their lives, how often they are shot, and the circumstances of their shootings.

Methods

Male detainees entering the city jail in Washington, DC, from March through June 1997 were screened for a history of gunshot wounds. Approximately 1 in 4 had previously been shot. Extensive interviews were conducted with every third male detainee who reported a prior gunshot wound within the past 5 years, until 79 men had responded. They reported 93 incidents in which they were shot in the past 5 years. Information was collected on each of these events. Each man completed a standardized in-person questionnaire administered by the same interviewer. For each incident, the detainee was asked approximately 40 questions about the circumstances of the prior incident, including many open-ended questions. From the open-ended description of the incident, the circumstances were placed into 7 mutually exclusive and completely inclusive categories: robbery, crossfire, assault, retaliation, argument, accident, and shot by police.

Each man was asked where the shooting occurred, the type of gun used, and whether he knew the person who shot him. Other questions asked whether, at the time of the shooting, the respondent was carrying a gun, whether he was on "high on drugs," and whether he had been drinking.

Each respondent was also asked if he went to the hospital, his length of stay in the hospital, the number of bullets that hit him, the location of the wound(s), whether bullets were still in his body, and whether the wound(s) caused any continuing disability. Each respondent was asked about his age, education, and whether he had ever been employed.

Finally, respondents were asked for general information about their lives and beliefs: "Have you ever seen someone get shot?" "Has anyone in your family died of a gunshot wound? Explain." "Have you ever shot or shot at someone?" "Has a gun ever protected you? Explain." "Do you want to live in a society where it is: Easy to get a gun or hard to get a gun?"

Respondents did not answer all questions about all incidents. Percentages in the table exclude missing responses. An "I don't want to talk about it" response is categorized as "missing."

Results

The median age of the detainees was 24 years (see Table 1). All were African Americans. Forty-one percent had completed at least a high school education, and 75% had been employed at some time in their lives. More than 80% had personally seen someone shot and 46% had a family member die due to a gunshot wound. Almost half claimed to have been protected by a gun -- sometimes by an armed friend. The vast majority would prefer to live in a society where it is hard rather than easy to get a gun.

In the incidents in which respondents were shot, 92% occurred outside anyone's home and more than two thirds occurred on the street (see Table 2). Ninety-seven percent were shot with a handgun and 69% were shot by strangers. More than a quarter admitted to being high on drugs during the incident, and 28% had been drinking. Only 9% reported having a gun on them when shot.

More than one third reported being hit by more than 1 bullet in the incident; and more than half were hit in the head or torso. More than 90% went to the hospital. More than half of these individuals stayed overnight in the hospital and a third stayed longer than a week. A third still had a bullet in their body, and 40% reported a continuing disability due to their wound.

The respondents virtually all indicated that they were the victims: 24% were victims of robbery, 21% were caught in a crossfire, 21% were assaulted, 18% were shot in retaliation for previous incidents, 6% were in an argument, 6% were unintentional shootings, and the police shot 4%...................,

Discussion

Jail detainees are individuals held in custody awaiting adjudication on criminal charges. They are rarely found not guilty of all current charges and they frequently have extensive prior criminal records. For example, a study of over 500 detainees in the Cook County Department of Corrections in 1994 found that 79% of detainees had previously been in jail. That figure rose to 91% among those who had previously been shot. [5] The vast majority of men in this study can reasonably be classified as criminals.

The study of detainees in Cook County found that 26% had previously been shot. [5] Similarly, in this study it was found that 1 in 4 of the Washington, DC, detainees had been wounded prior to their incarceration. These results are also similar to the Cook County study in other respects. For example, 18% of Cook County detainees reported to the interviewers that they had been using drugs when they were shot; another 24% recalled having drunk alcohol before the shooting. And as in this study, the majority reported being shot by a stranger. [5]

The young male detainees in this study live in a violent world, one in which criminal gunplay is common. For example, more than 80% have personally witnessed someone being shot, and almost half have had a family member killed with a gun.

Other studies have also found high levels of victimization among prisoners. In a study of over 800 male serious offenders incarcerated in juvenile correctional facilities in 6 states, 84% reported having been threatened with a gun or shot at during their lives. [8] A study of over 2000 adult male arrestees in 11 cities found that 60% had been threatened with a gun, 42% had been shot at, and 21% injured by gunshot. [10]

One of the most cited self-report surveys of both criminals and guns asked questions of over 1800 inmates serving time in state prisons in 1982. [2] The study underrepresented incarcerated juveniles and first-time offenders. Half of the inmates reported that they never carried a gun, 10% said they carried only when they intended to commit a crime, 25% carried in certain situations, and 15% said they made it a practice to carry a gun more or less all the time.

That study focused on the crimes that had been committed by these inmates rather than examining these men as potential victims. Still, among the half of those who reported ever carrying a gun, 50% had gotten into bar fights, 40% had been stabbed, and 52% had been shot at.

Most appear to have acquired and carried guns "for their own self-protection in what is clearly a hostile and violent environment." [2]

The authors conclude: "Violence, clearly, was very much an integral part of the daily lives of these men -- and this was as true on days when they were not committing crimes as on the days when they were." [2]

The conclusions of this study are similar. While the large majority of respondents are probably criminals, they undoubtedly spend the overwhelming majority of their time acting nonviolently, and it seems that most of the time they do not carry guns. Unfortunately for them, they live in a dangerous community with a lot of shootings. When they are shot, it is not surprising that it is usually at a time when they are not perpetrating a planned crime or carrying a gun.

They report being shot largely because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Most were victims of robberies, assaults, and crossfires. They may not be completely innocent, as when they were shot during a retaliation for a perceived wrong, or during an argument, or through their own carelessness. But none report being shot by victims during the commission of a crime (although 4% were shot by police during suspicious or criminal activity).

In this study, the authors did not ask about whether the shooting incident had anything to do with the reason the respondent was currently being detained, nor did they ascertain the charge against the individual. But from the description of the event, and how many years ago it occurred, they surmised that few events were related to the reason for incarceration.

............ Although they have access to firearms, and guns have been used to protect most of them at one time or another, the overwhelming majority of these criminals would prefer to live in a society where it is difficult rather than easy to get a gun. The vast majority of inner city junior high school and high school students also want to live in a world with fewer guns. [11]

Unfortunately, in the United States, inner city youth, whether or not they are criminals, live in a dangerous environment where access to guns is easy, and they and their families often find themselves the victims of gun violence.

The fact that this study concerns only 1 area, a city -- Washington, DC -- and involves gunshot wound victims who are exclusively young African Americans, limits the generalizability of the results. Yet it is not unusual that most urban gunshot wound victims are young men. The Massachusetts Weapon-Related Injury Surveillance System, for example, found that, in 1994, 74% of individuals seeking treatment for gunshot wounds in Boston were ages 25 and under. [12]

Probably the most important limitation of this study is that the results depend entirely on self-report. However, the respondents were interviewed by medical rather than criminal justice personnel. Identifiable information was never shared with law enforcement personnel or anyone else. No questions were asked about the date, exact location, or the names of others involved in the prior incident, an incident that might have occurred up to 5 years in the past. The vast majority of incidents appear to have had nothing to do with why the respondents were being detained. The respondents thus had no reason to think that telling the truth would hurt them in any way; many were not afraid to admit being "high on drugs" during the shooting. Other studies have accepted as reasonably valid answers to questions about prior criminal acts where respondents might have had some reason to mislead [1-3] ; in this study, questions only dealt with prior incidents in which the respondent was the one shot. The results of this study are consistent with other studies that suggest that it is common for criminals to be shot. But this study found that these inner-city males are rarely wounded by "law-abiding citizens" who are defending themselves against criminal misconduct. Instead, the respondents report being shot by other criminals -- who also live in a world filled with gun violence. These detainees would be better off, and prefer, to live in a world without such easy access to firearms.

This small study should be replicated with other types of criminals in other geographic settings.

All material on this website is protected by copyright. Copyright © 1994-2000 by Medscape Inc. All rights reserved.

John P. May, MD, FACP , Medical Director, Fulton County Jail, Atlanta, Georgia David Hemenway, PhD , Professor on Health Policy, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts Roger Oen, MPH , Medical Student, George Washington University School of Medicine and Health, Washington, DC Khalid Pitts, MPH , Quality Assurance Coordinator, Central Detention Facility, Washington, DC [MedGenMed, June 28, 2000. © Medscape, Inc.]

Dr. Hemenway received support from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, Joyce Foundation, and the Open Society Institute.
 
One criminologist argues that it is not only common for criminals to be shot, but that more criminals are wounded than all noncriminals combined. He implies that the overwhelming majority of these criminals are shot by law-abiding citizens, and that very few of these wounded criminals ever seek professional medical care because doctors are often required to report the treatment of gunshot wounds to the police.

And the point would be....?

The paragraph above is EXACTLY the way it SHOULD be. But of course, the liberals don't want it that way.

These young men live in a violent world of gunplay. The overwhelming majority would prefer that firearms were not so readily available.

That's pretty funny. If *I* were a criminal, I'd probably feel the same way. But the poor liberal sheeple (like the ones over at MS.) will shake their "heads" and say "they deserve to have a happy life too" (or some such drivel).

Bottom line: If you DON'T want to be subject to a disproportionate chance of getting shot, DON'T BE A CRIMINAL. Seems pretty straight-forward to me.
 
This is incredibly stupid. Notice there wasn't a category for victims deterring the crime by use of a firearm. Oops, forgot this was DC, where only politicians, cops, and other crooks can have firearms.

Morons.
 
The shootings were serious -- 35% were hit by more than 1 bullet...

Funny, I was always under the impression that being hit with one bullet was "serious."
 
this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read in my entire life.

"Criminals are at high risk of being victims of violence..."
I'm at work, so I'm trying very hard not to scream and pull my hair out right now.....
 
There is no honor among theives.
Also I find it extremly funny that all these shootings take place in DC. How much harder do you want access to legal guns to be?
 
Victimization is the right word!

Most of those men were undoubtably poor, raised in households at or near the poverty level. They probably grew up in neighborhoods where they saw people shot, beaten and stabbed before they were ten years old. I'm surprised as hell that 50% of them never carried a gun. I'm sure many of them are volitile and cause some of their own problems (shootings), hang out with people who reinforce every bad choice they could make etc...

Just because you (and me) were raised in a mannor that let you see how the future could come out well, don't think everyone is that lucky.

You can be less than a saint and still be a victim.
 
I think I'm going to write an article.

How's this title:

"People who run naked through the rose garden get scratched"

No duh. Criminals get shot, shoot each other and are generally more prone to being shot than any other group. Is this news to anyone?
 
I would be interested to know how many of these criminals were in a gang. Almost any shooting we hear about here in Chicago is gang related, it's a fact. I am sure they were all shot at, one gang drives by and shoots a few members, the rival comes back and shoots their members, vicious circle. I say lets give them free range time so they hit the right areas next time. :D

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We are as one as we all are the same fighting for one cause -Metallica
 
Those poor men! I'm sure they're all good fathers, sons, husbands and church-going citizens.

In the immortal words of W.S. Gilbert, from "the Pirates of Penzance":

When a felon's not engaged in his employment,
or maturing his felonious little plans,
his capacity for innocent enjoyment,
is just as great as any honest man's.

When the enterprising burglar's not a burgling,
when the cut-throat isn't occupied in crime,
he loves to hear the little brook a-gurgling,
and listen to the merry village chime.

When the coster's finished jumping on his mother,
he loves to lie a-basking in the sun!

Ah, take one consideration with another,
a policeman's lot is not a happy one.
 
The overwhelming majority [of criminals] would prefer that firearms were not so readily available.
QUOTE]

That gets the Daily Duh award. What the hell do you think we've been sayin' all along?
 
Miss Demeanors: You touched upon a very valid point: Most criminals don't shoot very accurately. Most hits are to bystanders (the "crossfire" mentioned above) or to foes at close range. A problem with respect to calls for more "gun control" is the number of totally innocent people who are hit by stray bullets from the gang-bangers' drive-by shootings.

It may be just a wee tad cynical, but if the g-b crowd were better trained in marksmanship, there would be fewer innocents hurt and thus fewer harassments of the RKBA folks.

"Possession of an item does not automatically convey expertise in its use."

Regards, Art
 
Okay, so criminals shoot each other a lot in a city where average citizens aren't allowed to have weapons. Hmmmm, if only criminals have weapons then only criminals are shooting people? How much did these people get paid to do this study?
My humble suggestion: all violent criminals should be tatooed orange so that they are both more visible to LEO and are easier targets for each other.

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
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