My dept. has a full auto HK MP5 that we fire at the range from time to time. My question is this: Whats up with the saftey/selector? It seems like it's made for someone with 5in long thumbs. I have to rotate my hand on the grip about 45 degrees to reach it! And no I don't have little girlie hands. Most of the other guy's on my team have the same complaint. Are all MP5's like this? I know MP5's have a really good reputation in the SWAT/Tactical LE community, but this seems like a pretty major design flaw. Is there an after market part that fixes this problem?
What's up with the MP5!
- Thread starter AMT8951
- Start date
Ergonomics is not the strong point for the MP5 - the selector is too far to manipulate without breaking your grip, the mag release is positioned wrong, and even with the combat mag flapper conversion, it is still necessary to use your ofhnd to release and drop the empty. There is no last round bolt catch. In these respects, the MP5 is inferior to the ergonomic design of the M16. As far as I'm aware, there is no aftermarket conversion that brings the selector closer to the grip so it can be more easily manipulated with the thumb without breaking your grip. I think this was corrected with the UMP, but not for the MP5. The "F" (French) model may have a slightly altered grip frame but I doubt its any beter than the original in this respect.
I think they designed it so you had to use 2 hands to change firing modes on purpose. The early MP5's had a trigger group that was odd. The left side has the familiar lever with SEF markings. The right side of the selector pin was a button that you had to press to unlock the Full Auto setting. If you didn't press the button you could only move it from Safe to Semi.
With that set-up it's absolutely impossible to switch modes without using both hands.
With that set-up it's absolutely impossible to switch modes without using both hands.
Springer45
New member
Yup, it actually has a grip frame on both ends to facilitate a convenient surrender to the aggressors.
We make an after market replacement switch lever...it's longer, flatter, and easier to reach. Some SWAT and HRT like it BUT we do not recommend it for patrol guns. Unless your job is using the MP5 on a day-to-day basis, it's fine the way it is.
We have also produced and internal conversion that has a "full auto" lock out for the MP5 as many departments are moving to semi only for patrol guns.
You have to physically pop open the gun to remove the block. It basically saves money for departments who have to stay semi auto but don't want to buy new trigger groups or trade out guns.
We have also produced and internal conversion that has a "full auto" lock out for the MP5 as many departments are moving to semi only for patrol guns.
You have to physically pop open the gun to remove the block. It basically saves money for departments who have to stay semi auto but don't want to buy new trigger groups or trade out guns.
The British Soldier
New member
You must be using one of the older SEF weapons; the newer models with icons of bullets adjacent to the ambidextrous selector are re-engineered to make it easier to manipulate - unless you have a new one. I found that I had to work it on and off a few dozen times to round off some edges and it operated really easily.
I think the selector issue is one of the few design 'critiques' one can level at the MP5 - I think it is a fantastic weapon.
I think the selector issue is one of the few design 'critiques' one can level at the MP5 - I think it is a fantastic weapon.
Britsh
Yes, it has one bullet for semi, and four (i think) in a row for full auto. I don't know how old it is, it was apparently gifted to our dept. , about 10yrs ago, by some federal agency.
CQB
The MP5 dosen't go on patrol. We have semi auto AR's and pump Shotguns in the cars. The MP5 stays in the armory untill we go to the range, on a raid, or some other call out.
Yes, it has one bullet for semi, and four (i think) in a row for full auto. I don't know how old it is, it was apparently gifted to our dept. , about 10yrs ago, by some federal agency.
CQB
The MP5 dosen't go on patrol. We have semi auto AR's and pump Shotguns in the cars. The MP5 stays in the armory untill we go to the range, on a raid, or some other call out.
You have the newer pictogram lower and that is the newest style there is.
If it's as you say, it's probably pretty good as is...at some point you'll end up upgrading to the "next thing" and selling those and even the newest stuff is about the same. The Hk 416 has that same styled trigger group but in the AR.
Here's something to try...take out an AR and take out the MP5...try the selectors on both...both will require a movement and reposition of the hand to go from safe to semi to full...it's sort of "good" that way...safer for everybody.
looks sort of like this one but with another pictogram with the multiple bullets at the top...and the switch is available on "both sides".
Old version:
Newer version
Good discussion on the different versions.
http://www.hkpro.com/trigs.htm
If it's as you say, it's probably pretty good as is...at some point you'll end up upgrading to the "next thing" and selling those and even the newest stuff is about the same. The Hk 416 has that same styled trigger group but in the AR.
Here's something to try...take out an AR and take out the MP5...try the selectors on both...both will require a movement and reposition of the hand to go from safe to semi to full...it's sort of "good" that way...safer for everybody.
looks sort of like this one but with another pictogram with the multiple bullets at the top...and the switch is available on "both sides".
Old version:
Newer version
Good discussion on the different versions.
http://www.hkpro.com/trigs.htm
The British Soldier
New member
I think that people who are lovers of the MP5 [and I'm one of them] but like the versatility of 5.56mm, might want to take a look at HK53. We routinely carried them as 'car guns' in Northern Ireland, just in case we bumped into anyone 'unpleasant'. We had two 25-round magazines side stacked on the weapon and two more in the grab-bag.
The nice thing about the Hk53 is that when you fire it, people know immediately that it is an awesome weapon. The earlier models chambered for 5.56mm M193 used to generate a hollywood-style muzzle flash and if you used one inside a car, after the first few rounds you couldn't see a damn thing! There was so much un-burnt propellant burning at the muzzle - it looked pretty impressive, but would be a real pain in a fireight. The opposition would know where you where instantly! With SS109 is was cured and the additional lethality of these rounds made for a very desirable package.
I guess the only downside is that HK53s cost a small fortune [as do all Hks] - but you get what you pay for and that is the best.
You can probably answer this better than I, but I understand that some SWAT Teams have seen less over penetration with 5.56mm than 9mm in room combat.
While I'm here, can anyone give me an idiots guide to including images in posts? I tried inserting a HK53 and not too sure what happened!
The nice thing about the Hk53 is that when you fire it, people know immediately that it is an awesome weapon. The earlier models chambered for 5.56mm M193 used to generate a hollywood-style muzzle flash and if you used one inside a car, after the first few rounds you couldn't see a damn thing! There was so much un-burnt propellant burning at the muzzle - it looked pretty impressive, but would be a real pain in a fireight. The opposition would know where you where instantly! With SS109 is was cured and the additional lethality of these rounds made for a very desirable package.
I guess the only downside is that HK53s cost a small fortune [as do all Hks] - but you get what you pay for and that is the best.
You can probably answer this better than I, but I understand that some SWAT Teams have seen less over penetration with 5.56mm than 9mm in room combat.
While I'm here, can anyone give me an idiots guide to including images in posts? I tried inserting a HK53 and not too sure what happened!
Attachments
The FBI in the US does tests every 5-10 years....and they come out with a new "spec".
The "old" SWAT teams had AR's...then the FBI said the 9mm subgun was the way to go...then the 10mm/40 S&W....now 30 years later...we are back to the AR as it sheds energy much faster once it hits something, like sheetrock and other common building materials...or so the story goes.
The other issue, the 53 is pretty much "dead". They would be forced to purchase the g36 (K or C) to meet that size...not a problem as there are tons of them around...and actually a bit cheaper than the 53.
The "old" SWAT teams had AR's...then the FBI said the 9mm subgun was the way to go...then the 10mm/40 S&W....now 30 years later...we are back to the AR as it sheds energy much faster once it hits something, like sheetrock and other common building materials...or so the story goes.
The other issue, the 53 is pretty much "dead". They would be forced to purchase the g36 (K or C) to meet that size...not a problem as there are tons of them around...and actually a bit cheaper than the 53.
Yes there are a variety of AR's done in 9mm, 40S&W, and even 45 ACP.
Now a days, the trend seems to be using glock magazines...or UZI or whatever...
Then again we run into the same problem with the 9mm theory that they retain too much energy through common building materials.
Classic Colt example the RO635 in 9mm
Now a days, the trend seems to be using glock magazines...or UZI or whatever...
Then again we run into the same problem with the 9mm theory that they retain too much energy through common building materials.
Classic Colt example the RO635 in 9mm
The British Soldier
New member
I have a few issues with the Colt 9mm SMG and I think it pales when you have used an MP5 a lot, which I have. We used to have the straight magazine on the MP5 until the late seventies and found that they gave stoppages. No matter that a 9mm looks parallel sided, it does have a gentle taper and that manifests itself in the feeding of the rounds inside the magazine. When HK brought out the curved 30-round magazine it was smiles all round because the Mk.2Z 9mm that we used was awesome; it functioned flawlessly through these weapons and gave a devastating effect at the target end - in terms of accuracy and lethality.
Apart from that one small feature, I think it a compromise to familiarity with the M4 and M16 range. I cannot get to an intelligent reason why it exists other than that. It is a big package and most 9mm SMGs are fairly compact.
People seem to be looking scornfully at the MP5, yet it has been the best available for over three decades and is still the weapon of choice for every major counter terrorist team in the world - I wonder why?
Apart from that one small feature, I think it a compromise to familiarity with the M4 and M16 range. I cannot get to an intelligent reason why it exists other than that. It is a big package and most 9mm SMGs are fairly compact.
People seem to be looking scornfully at the MP5, yet it has been the best available for over three decades and is still the weapon of choice for every major counter terrorist team in the world - I wonder why?
I think that with the commonality of body armor, and the performance/ ballistics of modern 5.56 ammo, we may not need another sub gun. This seems to be the trend with U.S. agenceys. May be different on your side of the pond. Do you Brits still use the Sterling or did the SA80 replace it?