Whats the problem with open carry?

H

hoosierboy

New member
Well... I live in Indiana where open carry is legal. I open carry at work everyday, and open carry when we make our bank deposits. I have been doing this for over a year now and I have seen a major difference in the attitudes from my unruly customers. For some reason when I say No, they finally understand what No means.

From where I see it criminals don't jump uniformed cops with guns and they open carry. People don't jump plain clothes policeman, and they open carry. People don't jump security gaurds with guns. I think it is a big deterrent when the BG sees it, it just makes me a harder target.

I read that hot burglaries are up in england. You know why, b/c the people are unarmed. The criminals don't want the trouble of possibly losing there life. That is why they have risen.

Off work I carry concealed, b/c I am just sick of the little kids asking me if I am a cop, but on occasion I have forgotten, and it hasn't been a conern. It just doesn't make sense to me. Can someone explain it to me I don't see the big deal. I am also wondering what john lott has to say about this.

Excuse me while I don my flame retardent suit.........Ok now flame away.

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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."

--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"

http://hometown.aol.com//jsax13/web.html
Member NRA, GOA, JPFO, SAF, and CCRKBA.
 
Hoosierboy...I also live in Indiana,and have been carrying for quite awhile. Are you sure about the open carry thing,I have never had anyone clarify it for me around here,so I have always carried concealed,of course at work I would have to anyway,so the sheeple would not freak out. I have seen a few people around from time to time though do it,but did not know their situation. I have looked at the wording on the license and it does say you can carry on your person or in vechicle any firearm you own,does not mentioned concealed..hmmm,that could be good news..if you have a source let me know..thanks..PJ
 
I believe that since it doesn't say that your gun must be carried concealed, it assumes that open carry is legal. I have asked a number of LEO's the same question and they just said it was legal. I guess I really didn't answer your question though, but then again you really didn't answer mine. hahaha!

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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."

--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"

http://hometown.aol.com//jsax13/web.html
Member NRA, GOA, JPFO, SAF, and CCRKBA.
 
Open carry is legal here in New Mexico. The only people I tend to get dirty looks from are the anti's. They run and hide and "tell" on you. A lot of the illegal immigrants think I am Border Patrol when I am wearing my Glock or Beretta.
 
The thing that strikes me as absurdly idiotic is states that allow concealed, but not open carry. Does this make ANY sense at all? So basically people can walk around with hidden firearms, which you would think would make them easier to sneak into banks, or catch someone off gaurd with, yet open carry, which is an honest display of what you have on you, is not allowed. I don't get it.

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
Livin in AZ I can carry open, have noticed that it tends to spook the herd once in a while. I mostly carry concealed just to avoid the screaming blue hairs and flatlanders.

Sam....packin heat makes me warm all over.
 
I still haven't gotten an answer. I read post after post of people saying OH MY G-D!!I am printing. Someone might see me. Who the hell cares??? Most sheeple wouldn't know what a bulge is if they saw it. The chance of a guy jumping you b/c you have a gun is extremely slim. Hey would you???

Anyone bother to inform me???

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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."

--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"
http://hometown.aol.com//jsax13/web.html
Member NRA, GOA, JPFO, SAF, and CCRKBA.

[This message has been edited by hoosierboy (edited September 29, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by hoosierboy (edited September 29, 2000).]
 
I carry openly 99.9% of the time.

I love it when kids ask me if I'm a cop. My response, "No, but I take responsibility for my personal protection very seriously. I also carry a gun to protect my wife and kids, like you against any bad guys that would want to hurt us. Your mom and dad could do the same thing if they chose to."

Most of the time, when it is an adult that asks, I know that they are from out-of-state. I just let them know that I carry a gun for the same reason that the police do. Personal protection. Usually they get it.

I would bet that most badies don't grab at an openly carried gun unless they are desperate or know the carrier's ability to retain the gun. The element of uncertainty would keep them away from it.

As for why concealed over open carry, it's just another way of over-sensationalizing the gun issue. Force them to hide their "evil" tool.

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John/az
"When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

See The Legacy of Gun Control film at: www.cphv.com

Do it for the children...

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited September 29, 2000).]
 
(Theoretically) The bad guys see you carrying openly at the grocery store they want to rob and have one of two responses: one, they turn tail and decide its not worth it; two they eliminate the most obvious threat to their criminal intentions first, namely you. Now the element of surprise is in thier favor.

My strong preference is for concealed carry in any environment where there's any substantial threat of criminals. Out in the toolys it may be a different story but in town I'd keep it under wraps.
 
Not a flame but I don`t think open carry is a good idea. I base my opinion on being a LEO for 20 years. Off duty we never wanted the gun to show.
AFA security guards, we were after a gang of mutts when I retired. They would hold up armored cars by shooting the guards in the back. No warning. Also, I worked security in a bank. The BG will take out the guard(s) first. We live in a violent society. Why show your hand prematurely? If you carry open in your place of business, most BG`s would think twice. It only takes one though. He`ll shoot you first because he knows who`s armed. Just my thoughts.

[This message has been edited by dinosaur (edited September 29, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by dinosaur (edited September 29, 2000).]
 
Here in Texas, the Land of the Cowboy :rolleyes:, it took us a LONNNNNNNNG time in coming before we got back the right to carry a pistol. We finally got it back in 1995, and only concealed. It's not a perfect law, by any means. I HATE that a CHL costs a citizen $140.00 for a mere 4 years, before he has to go back to class (another $50-$100), and re-register, and re-pay. I HATE that there are still "Places Where Weapons Prohibited," which, merely by some obscure legal designation, means that a person legally armed has committed a 3rd degree felony when he simply enters such a place!

But I actually like and agree with the concealed carry concept. Whether you are armed or not is a personal decision. It is yours, and should be yours alone. If you are carrying personal arms in an attempt to make an open public statement, I think you're carrying for the wrong reason.

One reason that I'm simply furious with our state for charging $140 for a Concealed Handgun License (the only way to carry pistols legally in TX [except while "travelling."]) is that I am convinced that the 1% that carries in our state protects the other 99%. Our law specifically requires that the pistol be concealed at all times, and not be made known to the public. (Though a girl in one of my recent Criminal Justice classes noted quietly to her friend the other day how many boots with bulges, vests, and fanny packs were present in the classroom, and ruminated how many guns were likely in the room at that time...) I personally feel that the State should subsidize the CHL's here, because of the benefit that the unarmed receive from the armed.

If you're a robber in TX, whom do you attack? What bank do you stick up? Home invasion? Which one? Whom do you carjack? Maybe you do it fine, or maybe you hit the unlucky jackpot of finding yourself a legally armed person. You can't just look for the gun. Just because there's no cop there doesn't mean that there's no gun.

Consider: are you carrying for self-protection, or are you carrying to impress people that you are armed?

If you're carrying openly, and drop by the Stop 'n' Rob for a soda pop, and a guy in the back of the store decides to make his move on the counter man, who do you think he's going to shoot first? You're carrying openly; you might be a cop. You're definitely an open threat to him. He'll pop you, first. Carrying concealed is an advantage.

Why in the world do you think that most cops carry concealed when off-duty? We can carry openly, but it's a disadvantage. That pistol on your hip may as well be a big bullseye target.

Look, I support your right to carry in any form and fashion you wish. I really do. But if you're asking for confirmation that open carry is the way to go, I just really don't agree.

Best,

L.P.
 
Long Path: Off Topic, but if you're teaching, presumably in a school, wouldn't those bulges your student talked about be a violation of federal law?
 
Hey, I admit that I carry open to make a statement about the RKBA. Normally, I do carry concealed, my permit being the BoR and the Constitution right now. I will break down and apply for my "Right" which will then be a priviledge.

But, overall, I believe that there is a chance, on both sides, of assult if you open or conceal carry. If you open carry, you will probably be targeted first in a robbery. Of course, this depends upon how alert you are. If you walk into the stop n rob, do you view or eyeball all the customers/clerk? Do you take the time to asses the people before you go to the freezer for that 12-pack? While waiting in line, do you eyeball the clerk and b!tch (internally) about how slow he/she is or do you keep up your guard? Is your gun hand free or carring that 12-pack?

On the other hand, you can also be assulted for conceal carry. How? If you print or wear a TFL T-Shirt, that police officer will be the one giving ya a hard time or maybe accidently shooting you. And, if you don't pay for the priviledge to maintain your "Right" then you will be the one going to jail.

So, there are risks on both sides. Either or is up to the individual but the main point being, the individual is being a free thinking person intent on ensuring the safety of him / herself, their family and even the sheeple around them.

USP45usp
 
Well, here in Misery, if you carry openly, you'll likely get a Glock screwed into your tender ear, and you'll be charged with brandishing a firearm, and it'll go to the cruncher...
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoosierboy:
Off work I carry concealed, b/c I am just sick of the little kids asking me if I am a cop, but on occasion I have forgotten, and it hasn't been a conern. It just doesn't make sense to me. Can someone explain it to me I don't see the big deal. I am also wondering what john lott has to say about this.
[/quote]

There a number of possible answers:

First, making a distinction between open and concealed carry provides another wedge for passing "reasonable" laws. Just like separating out "Saturday Night Specials" and "Assault Weapons" and "Sniper Rifles" allows the would-be tyrants to separate a small group of gun owners from the herd and take them down. (While most of the rest of the herd, to our collective shame, placidly watch and chew their cud, thinking, they'll never take _my_ weapon of choice....)

Second, by making sure that guns are only ever seen in the hands of a) cops and soldiers, or b) criminals, it becomes much easier to demonize possession of guns by anyone but an agent of the state. People can be brainwashed to go into hysterics at the sight of a gun in the hand of ANYONE who isn't wearing a uniform and/or badge. (The sight of millions of law-abiding, armed citizens going about their peaceful business day in and day out would make that project much more difficult.)

The "concealed weapons make criminals' lives more difficult than open carry" argument is, in my humble opinion, a crock of something smelly. It's a case of sour grapes--gun owners who mostly _can't_ legally carry openly trying to convince themselves and others that they don't really need or want to. In a truly free environment, where carrying openly or concealed was YOUR choice, the sight of guns openly worn on the hip or under the arm would deter lots of crime.
Most criminals don't want to risk being shot or killed--and attacking an armed person (even by surprise) is never a sure thing.
Better still, if the choice is YOURS, just because you don't _appear_ to be armed, it doesn't mean you aren't. Maybe you choose to carry discreetly (for whatever reason).

Yes, being openly armed _could_ lead to a preemptive strike by a criminal. And being seemingly unarmed could ALSO lead to an attack by a criminal. There are no guarantees either way.
 
Bogie, a bunch of us carried openly in Springfield last month with nary a problem. Nobody so much as said a cross word to me about it. Coming from Illinois that was a little strange. I'll carry there next year too.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Al Mondroca:
...Second, by making sure that guns are only ever seen in the hands of a) cops and soldiers, or b) criminals, it becomes much easier to demonize possession of guns by anyone but an agent of the state. People can be brainwashed to go into hysterics at the sight of a gun in the hand of ANYONE who isn't wearing a uniform and/or badge. (The sight of millions of law-abiding, armed citizens going about their peaceful business day in and day out would make that project much more difficult.)
[/quote]

Excellent point, and one I had not considered... :)

--L.P.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick Solomon:
Long Path: Off Topic, but if you're teaching, presumably in a school, wouldn't those bulges your student talked about be a violation of federal law?[/quote]

Rick, read my profile. It'll make sense... :)
 
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