What's the fuss about slide mounted safety?

2

2ndsojourn

New member
Yeah, what's the fuss all about?

For me, the only complaint I had was on my S&W 659, the screw that held the lever on kept coming loose, but Locktite fixed that. Taurus folks prefer the Model 92 to the Beretta 92 because of the frame mounted safety, but why?
 
"Have to shift your grip to manipulate the high slide mounted safety.
Frame mounted safety can be manipulated with no change in grip... "

Well, OK, but since I usually use a two-hand grip, I flip the decocker/safety with my left thumb and I never noticed any issue doing that. On my DA/SA gun I can't remember ever using the safety - - just the decocker. I flip the lever, then flip it back.

"Also, it's very easy to accidentally activate the safety while racking it when mounted on the slide."

Yeah, I can see that. Hasn't happened to me yet, but OK.
 
2ndsojourn,

Yes, I am a 1911 shooter and have been for decades.

But you have to understand that 1911 shooters as a whole
cannot be trained or learn new ways.

They think that JMB is a canonized saint and nothing new
need be devised or tried since his early designs.

Oh, now some will tell you that the 1911 way is the natural
way. The majority just don't know how dense and
burned out their brains' circuitry is.

As to accidentally flipping on the slide mounted safety while
racking the slide, they often are just fumble thumbs.

Their protests, if any, will prove my points. ;)
 
In theory I understand the criticism of slide mounted safeties and agree they may not be the perfect design. However, I wonder if the entire thing gets overstated like a lot of issues you here about on the internet. I’ve got two guns (S&W 5903 & Beretta 92FS) which have slide mounted safeties, but neither have presented any challenge to operate. Now, admittedly I’ve never had to use either gun in a high pressure situation, so who knows maybe there is legitimate data to indicate that LEOs and/or the military have document a lot of issues with this design.
 
What happens when your support hand is compromised?
Holding a baby
In a cast for whatever reason
Injured in the panic to escape conflict

The your 2-handed grip and manipulation of the safety with your support hand doesn't work... Changing grip, typically to a non-firing grip/position is required...

Me, I prefer simplicity. No manual safeties. Gun can be shot and manipulated by either hand equally well with training...
 
Independent George said:
...it's very easy to accidentally activate the safety while racking it when mounted on the slide.
Click to expand...
Also, even if you don't accidentally put the pistol on-safe, those levers can HURT when you forcefully rack the slide. I've cut the palm of my hand on a 3rd-gen S&W decocker/safety lever while doing tap-rack-bang drills. :mad:

For the most extreme example of this, take a look at a Star M28, and try to explain how one is supposed to rack the slide in a hurry WITHOUT putting the pistol on-safe and/or lacerating one's hands or fingers in the process. :rolleyes: (To be fair, I've read that one of the main reasons that Star replaced this pistol with the M30 so quickly is that so many people complained about the tiny slide serrations being located under the blade-like safety levers.)
UncleEd said:
...you have to understand that 1911 shooters as a whole
cannot be trained or learn new ways.

They think that JMB is a canonized saint and nothing new
need be devised or tried since his early designs.
Click to expand...
Including the grip safety that the Army insisted on adding to the M1911 over his objections, and/or the thumb-button drop-free mag release that was copied from the Luger Parabellum because the Army liked it better than the heel release on earlier JMB designs? ;)
 
Don't know if there are any slide mounted safety DA/SA guns that can be carried cocked and locked.

Walther P-01 was my only gun for many years. Never had a problem with pushing up instead of down. Most double stacks you need to shift your grip a little either way unless your hands are a perfect fit for the safety.
 
Also, it's very easy to accidentally activate the safety while racking it when mounted on the slide.
Click to expand...
Maybe "easy" is an over statement. It's really not that easy but it does have a design flaw.

It should have been thumbs up rather than thumbs down if they were going to mount it on the slide so it is easier to go live. Even better to put on the frame to begin with IMO. The motion of the thumb to reach that far up and over, then down to go live is not a good combat design. Its to much motion to be ready. If your going to have a safety on a gun it should be used or not have it at all and the design was wrong for combat.
 
Posts #2 and #3 address my concerns with it. I hate it. It's the one and only reason I don't own a Beretta. I could probably accept a 92 G... but there are other guns that do what I want without that.

I just stick with my P226 for a comparable gun. My favorite.
 
Thanks UncleEd, I thought I had detected a little slavish devotion when it comes to 1911s and JMB. Glad you confirmed my suspicions.
 
I LIKE SLIDE MOUNTED SAFETIES. With my arthritic fingers I can flip the safety levers up for a good purchase to grip the slide. It's the only way I can rack the slide on some guns. I had to sell my XD because I couldn't rack the slide as well as one of my 1911's. Having those levers on the slide allow me to get a good purchase to work the slide.

After racking the slide to load a round I use the levers to decock and then flip the safety off and carry ready in DA mode. When reaching for my gun in the holster my thumb automatically does a sweep on the safety to make sure it's ready to fire.

All firing systems are a compromise. SA only, DA only, DA/SA, Safe Action, etc. For me the best system is DA/SA.
 
It is seldom simply a choice of safety position. Frame mounted safeties lend themselves to "cocked and locked" carry because it is easier to make them interface directly with the sear or trigger. Slide mounted safeties, on the other hand, are very often seen on DA/SA pistols, combined with a decocker. There are exceptions to this, of course, but in general DA/SA and decocker = slide safety; SA and "cocked and locked" = frame safety.

(It has nothing really to do with JMB; had the U.S. Army thought of asking for a DA/SA pistol, Browning would have made one, and it would likely have had a slide mounted safety.)

Jim
 
Wreck-n-Crew said:
Maybe "easy" is an over statement. It's really not that easy but it does have a design flaw.

It should have been thumbs up rather than thumbs down if they were going to mount it on the slide so it is easier to go live. Even better to put on the frame to begin with IMO. The motion of the thumb to reach that far up and over, then down to go live is not a good combat design. Its to much motion to be ready. If your going to have a safety on a gun it should be used or not have it at all and the design was wrong for combat.
Click to expand...
Up is fire on 92fs and S&W. It's pretty natural for me as I draw to flick safety off. gives me a little momentum in my wrist at same time to bring sights up. Just as I assume it was natural for SAA cowboys to use the hammer to cock and flip the revolver up out of their holster.

Up over down and forward is fire on AR. You must be confusing the 2.
 
Try racking a Beretta PX4 without gloves, sometime, and see how your fingers like it compared to plain striations. I think the problem is as much safety lever shape as anything (the PX4 levers are sharp for some fool reason, and flip the wrong way), but in any case it makes it far too difficult for my parents to rack their 'defense' gun.

Worthy of mention, the Jericho pistol (slash boat anchor) is being reintroduced, but this time with a frame mounted safety. I am suddenly far more interested in these fat, ugly pigs. :D

The debate is all moot, though, since the best place for the safety is right where your trigger finger sits when you aren't ready to shoot, yet (yes, I think the Five-seveN safety makes the most logical sense of all of them, and is very easy, if unfamiliar, to use in practice)

TCB
 
Probably depends on what you shoot or carry the most often, and what you are used to. Loctite cured the loosening of the safety screw on my S&W M659
 
2ndsojourn said:
What's the fuss about slide mounted safety?
Yeah, what's the fuss all about?
Click to expand...

The fuss is about folks who prefer something different needing to validate their choice by denigrating whatever they do not prefer.

Slide-mounted safety, frame-mounted safety, decocker-only, or no manual safety - every approach has its boosters and detractors. The only real answer is which one works best for you.
 
"The debate is all moot, though, since the best place for the safety is right where your trigger finger sits when you aren't ready to shoot,..."

I agree with that 100%.

Personally, for me anyway, it's just a matter of personal preference and learning (to the point of instinct) where the safety is and how to operate it for any chosen weapon.

I have a preference for 1911's for the range and home defense, and for carry (if NJ would allow it) I'd prefer DA/SA in condition 2 (which in most cases = slide mounted safety). Don't ask me why, it just is. I don't have a problem with either but can see the con's and they aren't an issue for me. Yet, anyway.
 
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