what's the difference?
- Thread starter rugerdude
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DarkKnight01
New member
sure, altho ive not trained in all the ones youve listed i have a pretty good idea what the differences are as ive trained in several styles over the last 19 years
first one Judo - a very nice style actually classified as a "sport" involves many different variations of throws and take downs... not alot of striking kicking n stuff like that, but none the less very much fun to study
second Jujitsu - this style ive not alot of experience or knowledge in, but from what ive seen and read it is an effective style, involving some of what u would learn in judo being throws sweeps etc, but as well as striking - including but not limited to kicks, punches, use of other parts of the body you normally wouldnt think could be harmful.
third tae-kwon-doe - this style i happen to have experience in, i studied it for over 7 years, it involves mostly strikes, involving but not limited to: kicks punches elbow strikes, aerial kicks etc... the style is versatile and flexible... but i find it quite basic, i moved on from this style to bigger and better things at the age of 12...
fourth - kung fu - this is probably one of the most popular styles there is, it is a chinese art quite complex and involves different variations of the style, youve probably heard the term "praying mantis" this is a variation of kung fu, im not sure what exactly their offering, but this style should be reserved for a later time once youve learned some basics. IE how to take a fall, block, counter attack, and most importantly knowing your body.
and lastly hap ki do - this would probably my pick (as it doesnt vary too far from what i currently study - aikido.) it involves several techniques used to disable a person... being from breaking limbs throws dislocating joints and pins to end the fight before it begins (please those that have studied in this style if im wrong feel free to correct me as my knowledge in this style isnt as vast as my aikido experience, but ive heard many say it is very similiar)
all in all my advice would be, start with tae kwon doe for a few months to get the feel for things learn your body : find your balance. learn the basics of the arts and its discipline. then move onto what u wish to persue, personally i would go for the hap ki do class or the kung fu. but thats me, go to the classes and just sit and watch to see if its what your interested in, speak with the instructors and get a feel for them, the teachings can only be as good as the instructor. dont go for some hot head that thinks hes the king of the block or something. studying is not about being tuff, its a self wellness type of exercise, to better ones self, mentally physically and spiritually.
first one Judo - a very nice style actually classified as a "sport" involves many different variations of throws and take downs... not alot of striking kicking n stuff like that, but none the less very much fun to study
second Jujitsu - this style ive not alot of experience or knowledge in, but from what ive seen and read it is an effective style, involving some of what u would learn in judo being throws sweeps etc, but as well as striking - including but not limited to kicks, punches, use of other parts of the body you normally wouldnt think could be harmful.
third tae-kwon-doe - this style i happen to have experience in, i studied it for over 7 years, it involves mostly strikes, involving but not limited to: kicks punches elbow strikes, aerial kicks etc... the style is versatile and flexible... but i find it quite basic, i moved on from this style to bigger and better things at the age of 12...
fourth - kung fu - this is probably one of the most popular styles there is, it is a chinese art quite complex and involves different variations of the style, youve probably heard the term "praying mantis" this is a variation of kung fu, im not sure what exactly their offering, but this style should be reserved for a later time once youve learned some basics. IE how to take a fall, block, counter attack, and most importantly knowing your body.
and lastly hap ki do - this would probably my pick (as it doesnt vary too far from what i currently study - aikido.) it involves several techniques used to disable a person... being from breaking limbs throws dislocating joints and pins to end the fight before it begins (please those that have studied in this style if im wrong feel free to correct me as my knowledge in this style isnt as vast as my aikido experience, but ive heard many say it is very similiar)
all in all my advice would be, start with tae kwon doe for a few months to get the feel for things learn your body : find your balance. learn the basics of the arts and its discipline. then move onto what u wish to persue, personally i would go for the hap ki do class or the kung fu. but thats me, go to the classes and just sit and watch to see if its what your interested in, speak with the instructors and get a feel for them, the teachings can only be as good as the instructor. dont go for some hot head that thinks hes the king of the block or something. studying is not about being tuff, its a self wellness type of exercise, to better ones self, mentally physically and spiritually.
Judo is tranlated "the gentle way," if I am remembering right. It uses primarily throws, chokes, arm bars, and other grappling type techniques. In Judo, closer is better. You don't need space for a strike or kick. For the throwing techniques generally smaller is better because of a lower center of gravity. A strong grip is helpful but is easily developed. Most motions are designed to use an opponent's weight or momentum against him, which means less muscle is needed when moves are executed.
I was in Judo for about a year in junior high, Jujitsu is what I would like to learn if I get the opportunity to take it up.
I was in Judo for about a year in junior high, Jujitsu is what I would like to learn if I get the opportunity to take it up.
Danindetroit
New member
Aikido is the martial art that Steven Segal uses. It is a good martial arts but I have to wonder how long it would take to master a lot of the holds he uses. If you really watch you see he usually waits for an attack, does not defeat it straight on , but rather pulls your punching arm ,and strikes it to put it in a vulnerable position then puts a hold on a joint. I hope I desribe it correctly DarkKnight. You then use all your strength on a small joint. The easiest thing is if somebody puts their finger in your face grab it and bend it backwards they will go to their knees, while doing this, I would twist to the side so they don't strike your privates, you can just lift your leg to block most strikes.
Tao of jeet kune do is the book that bruce lee wrote about his fighting method, it is a method of fighting, I think as opposed to a style. The one thing about eastern martial arts is some of the moves are based on fighting that was used a long time ago. They use ridgid patterns of strikes, kicks,and grappling. Bruce Lee believed in the fact that every threat is different, so every attack, and defense is different, I believe, I have not read it in a long time. I guess he was trained in Kung Fu, or Gung FU, I think all eastern martial arts are offshoots of these martial arts, they combine kicks strike hold, almost anything you want.
As I understand it Tae kwon do is a korean martial arts, I studied Kenpo, which is a korean city, and a martial arts. I though people who talked about tae-won-do talked about a lot of kicks. The Kenpo I sudied was very modernistic, either using a traditional boxing stance, or a side stance. I was taught Front kicks, and side kicks, I also learned I could kick with decent power low. Learned the poses, and positions, but liked to spar more than do the "moves". Learned more about my weaknesses with sparring and what to avoid to get clobbered. I am a firm believer that power comes from the legs, through the midsection to the upper body. I learned the a proper side kick was executed byshift weight from kicking foot to non-kicking foot, lifting knee, and at the last moment pointing the foot at target, and pivoting on weight bearing foot to add power to your strike. You sound like a good person. If you can watch a little Ultimate fighting, and or pride. These are contestes that it hink the only rules are that no eye gouging, or biting, and no kicking while the opponent is down, in UFC, you can kick a downed opponent in Pride I believe. These contests are usually very interesting, they have more groundwork that an actual "street" fight, because people will bite you to stay alive. It stresses the variety of fighting stlyes, and body styles, Tito Ortiz is a guy who when I weight lifted, I would have said, trained for the beach, where Chuck Liddel is probably just a naturally strong person. Some of the older UFC's are probably on video, get one with Tank Abbot. The fighters within the last 2 years are highly trained, physically and in their art. At the start of UFC it was almost a "toughman contest" with guys who had almost no skill. Try to do some ab work, when you get the "wind knocked out of you" you will know why. Search the internet, they should have the major martial arts foundations. Good luck
Tao of jeet kune do is the book that bruce lee wrote about his fighting method, it is a method of fighting, I think as opposed to a style. The one thing about eastern martial arts is some of the moves are based on fighting that was used a long time ago. They use ridgid patterns of strikes, kicks,and grappling. Bruce Lee believed in the fact that every threat is different, so every attack, and defense is different, I believe, I have not read it in a long time. I guess he was trained in Kung Fu, or Gung FU, I think all eastern martial arts are offshoots of these martial arts, they combine kicks strike hold, almost anything you want.
As I understand it Tae kwon do is a korean martial arts, I studied Kenpo, which is a korean city, and a martial arts. I though people who talked about tae-won-do talked about a lot of kicks. The Kenpo I sudied was very modernistic, either using a traditional boxing stance, or a side stance. I was taught Front kicks, and side kicks, I also learned I could kick with decent power low. Learned the poses, and positions, but liked to spar more than do the "moves". Learned more about my weaknesses with sparring and what to avoid to get clobbered. I am a firm believer that power comes from the legs, through the midsection to the upper body. I learned the a proper side kick was executed byshift weight from kicking foot to non-kicking foot, lifting knee, and at the last moment pointing the foot at target, and pivoting on weight bearing foot to add power to your strike. You sound like a good person. If you can watch a little Ultimate fighting, and or pride. These are contestes that it hink the only rules are that no eye gouging, or biting, and no kicking while the opponent is down, in UFC, you can kick a downed opponent in Pride I believe. These contests are usually very interesting, they have more groundwork that an actual "street" fight, because people will bite you to stay alive. It stresses the variety of fighting stlyes, and body styles, Tito Ortiz is a guy who when I weight lifted, I would have said, trained for the beach, where Chuck Liddel is probably just a naturally strong person. Some of the older UFC's are probably on video, get one with Tank Abbot. The fighters within the last 2 years are highly trained, physically and in their art. At the start of UFC it was almost a "toughman contest" with guys who had almost no skill. Try to do some ab work, when you get the "wind knocked out of you" you will know why. Search the internet, they should have the major martial arts foundations. Good luck
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John Ringo
New member
I am a 2nd degree black in Tang Soo Do under the old Chuck Norris system. It was originally called the United Fighting Arts Federation (UFAF).
TSD and TKD are basically the same thing (mostly feet). Akido is more throwing and use of pressure points.
TSD and TKD are basically the same thing (mostly feet). Akido is more throwing and use of pressure points.
Danindetroit
New member
I know chuck was a world champion martial artist. Did he train with Bruce Lee, or did they just talk shop, or was Chuck converted to Bruce Lee's method of martial arts. As I understand Steven Segal is no slouch, I believe his is the only american born person to have an Akido Studio in Japan.
It seems Easier to learn to slip a punch, and counter punch that do those holds, I guess that is why they are refered to as Disciplines
.
It seems Easier to learn to slip a punch, and counter punch that do those holds, I guess that is why they are refered to as Disciplines
.John Ringo
New member
Chuck Norris picked-up martial arts when he was in the Army in Korea. He came back here and started a chain of schools with his brother Aaron. The chain has been around since the 1970s. I started in 1985 and trained until about 1995. Got kinda burned out on the whole thing after a while.
No affiliation between Norris and Lee that I know of other than a movie back in the 80s. Same thing with Caradine.
No affiliation between Norris and Lee that I know of other than a movie back in the 80s. Same thing with Caradine.
John Ringo
New member
Yes. Boxing is great. I highly recommend it. The martial arts often limits people because they fall too dependant on their feet and never use their hands. Using the feet is good, but often over-rated in a street fight.
Nobody in a street fight is going to stand there and let someone kick them. Most experienced fighters are going to see someone's foot come off the ground and they are going to close the distance and get up close & personal. That is where good boxing skills are going to come in handy. Having some wrestling skills is also important.
Most street fights goto the ground.
Nobody in a street fight is going to stand there and let someone kick them. Most experienced fighters are going to see someone's foot come off the ground and they are going to close the distance and get up close & personal. That is where good boxing skills are going to come in handy. Having some wrestling skills is also important.
Most street fights goto the ground.
DarkKnight01
New member
wow lots of great replies here =)
and yes Danindetroit, thats correct Steven Seagal studies aikido, my understanding and as far as rumor has it he holds a 9th or 10th don ranking... which is 9th or 10th degree black belt... and that was 5-6 years ago, by now he could have tested for another ranking, but at that point its just politcal. pretty insane.. to have that much understanding id give up parts of my anatomy.. and Aikido is all about letting the opponent make the mistake and using their momentum against them, combined with the inner force of Ki, known as Chi in the chinese arts, hence the style Tai Chi, somewhat similar to aikido but much more relaxed and slow moving during training. and in a short description it is beautiful to watch it properly executed.
and no Chuck never trained with Bruce... altho at one time he thought he could whip Bruce... he lost.... very quickly. as going head to head with the greatest martial artist that there ever was and ever will be would just be stupid. no disrespect to chuck hes very talented, and i think after he realized that bruce wad superior he may have then trained a bit and as someone else stated "talked shop". but i dont think anyone can compare to Bruce... a close match might be Billy Blanks... hes one bad mofo.. but id still put my money on bruce.. he was SO damn fast it was amazing.. where as billy is built like a brick outhouse.. very fast and strong but big compared to bruce, and bruce didnt need crude matter for strength he had other sources.
and yes rugerdude boxing can be alot of fun ive trained in it a bit as well, but i look at it more as exercise, its great to train your speed and crude matter of muscle strength, which is very important to stay healthy and if u have to lift heavy stuff =) but if you choose to train Judo, you will become familiar with a strength far greater than all the weight lifting in the world can bring you, this is the inner strength known as Ki, as i mentioned above, its an inner force thats in all living things and learning to expand this energy and use it properly is a great power. to make a long story short im 6'2 and weigh about 210lbs... ive been thrown over 10 feet by women in training that are 5'2 and weigh 115lbs... do u think they could do this with muscles?.... not a chance.
rugerdude try out some different styles, as i mentioned before go to the dojo and watch the class, see how they are speak with the instructor(s) if you arent comfortable with your sensei you will never learn all that u can. my aikido sensei is probably one of the greatest men ive ever known, always very polite with a big smile on his face. altho he is known from time to time to get this red glow in his eye and people start hitting the mat. he likes realism heh, and going into that many dojo's vary greatly in the same styles, some are more on a training level everything very slow and gradual. others are more real life based with near full speed strikes and reactions. altho generally this is reserved for the advanced students, at our dojo we have beginner and advanced, u have to go thru beginners classes for at least a year and then its up to sensei if he feels your ready to move on.
look into all that u can, research it online, go to the dojo and speak to the instructor and the students, find out what u want to study, and go for it =)
John Ringo: actually you are right to an extent, but it varies from person to person, some people are VERY fast with their feet, im pretty good but not as quick as i am with my hands, but also ive never seen a martial arts style that only involved feet, the closest exception would be Savate : a french kickboxing style, but even then u learn to use your hands as well, virtually all styles teach you how to use your whole body, not just your hands or your feet. but all together youd be surprised how quickly a well trained martial artists foot can go from the ground to someones nose... i used to compete in martial arts and ive knocked out several people with aerial kicks... tho not as quickly executed as a punch, but alot more force involved.. i guess what im trying to say is dont think the arts are limited to just the use of feet, as that is very far from the truth, aikido involves almost no kicks. its all upper body. going back to steven seagal even in his movies he rarely uses his feet for anything more than a kick to the mid section, ive never seen him go for a head kick, as you are correct it takes more time to get your foot from the ground to someones face. but if the opening is there and perhaps u have them stunned from a jab to the nose, then u have more than enuf time to land a few kicks to the head. this has been my experience.
and yes Danindetroit, thats correct Steven Seagal studies aikido, my understanding and as far as rumor has it he holds a 9th or 10th don ranking... which is 9th or 10th degree black belt... and that was 5-6 years ago, by now he could have tested for another ranking, but at that point its just politcal. pretty insane.. to have that much understanding id give up parts of my anatomy.. and Aikido is all about letting the opponent make the mistake and using their momentum against them, combined with the inner force of Ki, known as Chi in the chinese arts, hence the style Tai Chi, somewhat similar to aikido but much more relaxed and slow moving during training. and in a short description it is beautiful to watch it properly executed.
and no Chuck never trained with Bruce... altho at one time he thought he could whip Bruce... he lost.... very quickly. as going head to head with the greatest martial artist that there ever was and ever will be would just be stupid. no disrespect to chuck hes very talented, and i think after he realized that bruce wad superior he may have then trained a bit and as someone else stated "talked shop". but i dont think anyone can compare to Bruce... a close match might be Billy Blanks... hes one bad mofo.. but id still put my money on bruce.. he was SO damn fast it was amazing.. where as billy is built like a brick outhouse.. very fast and strong but big compared to bruce, and bruce didnt need crude matter for strength he had other sources.
and yes rugerdude boxing can be alot of fun ive trained in it a bit as well, but i look at it more as exercise, its great to train your speed and crude matter of muscle strength, which is very important to stay healthy and if u have to lift heavy stuff =) but if you choose to train Judo, you will become familiar with a strength far greater than all the weight lifting in the world can bring you, this is the inner strength known as Ki, as i mentioned above, its an inner force thats in all living things and learning to expand this energy and use it properly is a great power. to make a long story short im 6'2 and weigh about 210lbs... ive been thrown over 10 feet by women in training that are 5'2 and weigh 115lbs... do u think they could do this with muscles?.... not a chance.
rugerdude try out some different styles, as i mentioned before go to the dojo and watch the class, see how they are speak with the instructor(s) if you arent comfortable with your sensei you will never learn all that u can. my aikido sensei is probably one of the greatest men ive ever known, always very polite with a big smile on his face. altho he is known from time to time to get this red glow in his eye and people start hitting the mat. he likes realism heh, and going into that many dojo's vary greatly in the same styles, some are more on a training level everything very slow and gradual. others are more real life based with near full speed strikes and reactions. altho generally this is reserved for the advanced students, at our dojo we have beginner and advanced, u have to go thru beginners classes for at least a year and then its up to sensei if he feels your ready to move on.
look into all that u can, research it online, go to the dojo and speak to the instructor and the students, find out what u want to study, and go for it =)
John Ringo: actually you are right to an extent, but it varies from person to person, some people are VERY fast with their feet, im pretty good but not as quick as i am with my hands, but also ive never seen a martial arts style that only involved feet, the closest exception would be Savate : a french kickboxing style, but even then u learn to use your hands as well, virtually all styles teach you how to use your whole body, not just your hands or your feet. but all together youd be surprised how quickly a well trained martial artists foot can go from the ground to someones nose... i used to compete in martial arts and ive knocked out several people with aerial kicks... tho not as quickly executed as a punch, but alot more force involved.. i guess what im trying to say is dont think the arts are limited to just the use of feet, as that is very far from the truth, aikido involves almost no kicks. its all upper body. going back to steven seagal even in his movies he rarely uses his feet for anything more than a kick to the mid section, ive never seen him go for a head kick, as you are correct it takes more time to get your foot from the ground to someones face. but if the opening is there and perhaps u have them stunned from a jab to the nose, then u have more than enuf time to land a few kicks to the head. this has been my experience.
studied Shotokan, and KaKush-ryu.
Shototkan is a basic fighting style. Using kicks, punches, but interstingly, it also has "some" judo in it.
I would recommend that you find a Mu Thai fighting...kick boxing. It will give you a good basic fighting style, and then you can study other styles if you want.
You should be able to pick up kick boxing in 2 years. As for the other styles, it would take several years to learn them...After 6-9 months of kick boxing, you should be able to hold your own.
Think of the martial arts as a pyramid. At the base are all of the styles. By the time you attain the top of the pyramid, no matter what style, you pretty well know all of the fighting techinques.
As for the KaKush, it was a stick fighting I studied while I was in Japan. Use a walking stick. Very effective, only had to use it twice in my life. Once to break a man's ankle, and the second time when a guy reached into his coat and say he was "going to blow me away". A good smack with the stick across the elbow and he was screaming and whimpering, he also couldn't remove his arm from the jacket, so don't know if he had "something" there or was just bluffing!
Shototkan is a basic fighting style. Using kicks, punches, but interstingly, it also has "some" judo in it.
I would recommend that you find a Mu Thai fighting...kick boxing. It will give you a good basic fighting style, and then you can study other styles if you want.
You should be able to pick up kick boxing in 2 years. As for the other styles, it would take several years to learn them...After 6-9 months of kick boxing, you should be able to hold your own.
Think of the martial arts as a pyramid. At the base are all of the styles. By the time you attain the top of the pyramid, no matter what style, you pretty well know all of the fighting techinques.
As for the KaKush, it was a stick fighting I studied while I was in Japan. Use a walking stick. Very effective, only had to use it twice in my life. Once to break a man's ankle, and the second time when a guy reached into his coat and say he was "going to blow me away". A good smack with the stick across the elbow and he was screaming and whimpering, he also couldn't remove his arm from the jacket, so don't know if he had "something" there or was just bluffing!
DarkKnight01
New member
yes there is some strikes involved, but mainly its to distract the attacker so u can get them into a hold or throw, like striking the solar plexus (an area on the abdomen) to weaken their core to make them easier to manipulate..
as far as what the USMC uses for defence im not really sure..
as far as what the USMC uses for defence im not really sure..
John Ringo
New member
My experience in having trained in TSD and TKD the better part of my life was that many students fall too dependant on their feet and do not properly utilize their hands. This is primarily how you can distinguish an experienced fighter versus a novice fighter in the ring. The novices will get into the ring at tournaments and start trying to kick their opponents head off with brute force while using very little hands or combinations.
I complimented my Martial Arts training by getting into Collegiate Boxing (Mid-Atlantic Conference) back in the early 1990s when I was in school. This really taught me to effectively use my hands. It mostly taught me how to block under pressue. Boxing is a different animal. Anyone who has ever stepped into the boxing ring knows how exhausting it can be within a minute or two of trading punches. Learning to block under fatigue and pressue is an invaluable skill.
I would not exactly classify Bruce Lee as the greatest Martial Artist of all time. He was a movie star. He was not a professional fighter. I am sure that Billy Blanks would have no problem cleaning the floor with Bruce Lee in a street fight. Most of what Martial Artists do in movies (like flying reverse crescent kicks and spinning back flips) would be completely useless in a street fight.
Well...this is getting way off topic. I would just suggest to find a good Martial Arts school, enjoy the training, learn everything you can, and later down the line mix things up with some boxing, wrestling, or ever some other styles. But try to master one thing before you try to take on too much.
I complimented my Martial Arts training by getting into Collegiate Boxing (Mid-Atlantic Conference) back in the early 1990s when I was in school. This really taught me to effectively use my hands. It mostly taught me how to block under pressue. Boxing is a different animal. Anyone who has ever stepped into the boxing ring knows how exhausting it can be within a minute or two of trading punches. Learning to block under fatigue and pressue is an invaluable skill.
I would not exactly classify Bruce Lee as the greatest Martial Artist of all time. He was a movie star. He was not a professional fighter. I am sure that Billy Blanks would have no problem cleaning the floor with Bruce Lee in a street fight. Most of what Martial Artists do in movies (like flying reverse crescent kicks and spinning back flips) would be completely useless in a street fight.
Well...this is getting way off topic. I would just suggest to find a good Martial Arts school, enjoy the training, learn everything you can, and later down the line mix things up with some boxing, wrestling, or ever some other styles. But try to master one thing before you try to take on too much.
DarkKnight01
New member
John Ringo: actually i wouldnt classify Bruce Lee as just being a movie star... as he studied for many years before ever becoming involved in film production.. and for that matter Billy Blanks has been in a handful of movies himself... as well as several other talented martial artists... of course we know Chuck Norris, Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Stevel Segal, and several others that arent currently coming to mind. so are u saying that none of these people have any real talent and are just actors whom use special effects to achieve these feats? sorry bud but i beg to differ.. and yes this is wandering off topic some, but i need stress the point of Bruce Lee's legacy as he did alot for the world of martial arts.. he was somewhat responsible for bringing the notion of martial arts to the west. others opinions may vary. but mine is that he is the greatest there ever was and probably ever will be. =)
John Ringo
New member
Yeah Bruce is good....I don't want to downplay that one
Good chatting with you guys on this...martial arts is always interesting !!!
Good chatting with you guys on this...martial arts is always interesting !!!
Danindetroit
New member
He won the a title in '58 I believe, but did not like the format of a "touch being counted as a point. So he never competed, again. He wanted a more full contact system I think. Maybe UFC would be his Forte'. Brue Lee was a very small man. I think 140lbs. Most of the guys would be out of his weight class, but they would be good fights. He was a great martial arts theorist, and challenged the notions of conventional martial arts. I think his jeet Kune do is the way of the relaxed fist? I thought he advocated, having a had ready to block, grab, or punch, and that the had should be clenched at the last second. His footwork is akin to a traditional boxing stance.
DarkKnight01
New member
im not sure exactly where he applied this theory but yes, the relaxed fist is a proven theory.... at least from what my studies have shown
whether it was in Jeet Kune Do or in "Lee" itsself..
whether it was in Jeet Kune Do or in "Lee" itsself..