What's the difference between Paper cutter and whatnot?
- Thread starter koolminx
- Start date
I believe you're thinking of a "wadcutter" round. Wadcutters are used for target work because they have a sharp shoulder which cuts a neat circular hole instead of a jagged hole. The reason this is important is for easier scoring of the targets in competition. Sometimes a hole will be close to or right on a scoring line and it can mean the difference between a winning score or second place.
There are two types of target bullets for pistols. Both are very accurate. The obvious, frequently sharp edged, shoulder cuts a clean hole in target paper which aids scoring. Very often in a pistol match, the scorer must determine whether a bullet hole cuts the next higher scoring ring or not. Sometimes, the scoring of just one shot can mean the difference between winning or losing.
- wadcutters = little or no protruding nose on bullet and a sharp, flat edge where the front of bullet meets the side of bullet.
- semi-wadcutters = have the same sharp edge/shoulder as full wadcutters but also have a very pronounced, protruding nose.
- wadcutters = little or no protruding nose on bullet and a sharp, flat edge where the front of bullet meets the side of bullet.
- semi-wadcutters = have the same sharp edge/shoulder as full wadcutters but also have a very pronounced, protruding nose.
Self-defense ammunition is designed to expand. That does several things:
Makes a bigger hole.
Tends to penetration to acceptable limits.
It stops the bullet faster which means that the bullet applies more force/power to the target.
That makes good self-defense ammunition expensive since reliable expansion can be difficult to achieve over the range of targets, bullet velocities, intermediate barriers, etc. that the bullet is expected to perform. It requires more testing and is generally more complicated to make. It is likely subject to more careful quality control measures as well due to its intended usage.
It needs to be 100% reliable both in function and expansion and also needs to be accurate and should also be low-flash since many self-defense encounters occur in low light.
Typical practice ammunition is designed primarily to be inexpensive and accurate.
Makes a bigger hole.
Tends to penetration to acceptable limits.
It stops the bullet faster which means that the bullet applies more force/power to the target.
That makes good self-defense ammunition expensive since reliable expansion can be difficult to achieve over the range of targets, bullet velocities, intermediate barriers, etc. that the bullet is expected to perform. It requires more testing and is generally more complicated to make. It is likely subject to more careful quality control measures as well due to its intended usage.
It needs to be 100% reliable both in function and expansion and also needs to be accurate and should also be low-flash since many self-defense encounters occur in low light.
Typical practice ammunition is designed primarily to be inexpensive and accurate.
Jim Watson
New member
Has anybody got a picture of a whatnot bullet?
What I meant to say but couldn't form is the stories I read here about some dude asking for ammo, and another dude asking him if he want's to shoot Paper or People....
Why is that relevant to the question of purchasing say a box of 9MM Luger rounds?
If it's for self defense I am not going to be out shooting 14 different kinds of ammo then change to another kind just to use for self defense... I'd rather be familiar with how the round shoots so I don't have to change any habits to defend myself...
Don't nobody practice shooting targets with the same stuff theyre going to shoot an intruder with? OR am I just not getting it?
Why is that relevant to the question of purchasing say a box of 9MM Luger rounds?
If it's for self defense I am not going to be out shooting 14 different kinds of ammo then change to another kind just to use for self defense... I'd rather be familiar with how the round shoots so I don't have to change any habits to defend myself...
Don't nobody practice shooting targets with the same stuff theyre going to shoot an intruder with? OR am I just not getting it?
dogtown tom
New member
The primary reason for shooting different ammunition (paper vs people) ?
Cost.
FMJ "plinking" ammo is half the price or less than the premium ammunition designed for self defense.
If Corbon PowR'ball, Federal HydraShok or Winchester Ranger ran the same price per round as CCI Blazer or Winchester White Box, I'm quite sure Blazer & WWB would cease to exist. But they don't and never will.
softer ammo hels developing and keeping good habits
Hi,
I believe that one can become very proficient without necessarily shooting all the time the same ammo that one carries.
My reasons are:
1. JHP ammo is invariably more expensive, so for most people, using it all the time means less shooting.
2. By using cheaper ( and with milder recoil) ammo, once can shoot more and avoid developing any of the myriad of bad habits that can result from shooting a gun that recoils very hard. This is more so when one has a very light gun that tends to recoil very hard with "hot" ammunition.
So, with ammo that is not premium grade( without taking it to the extreme where the practice ammo is ridiculously soft) , one can practice more and be proficient. If and when you need to defend yourself your body will be so affected by the adrenaline and emotions, that the additonal recoil will go unnoticed, but you will be shooting correctly, which means a better chance of shooting fast and accurately. (Did I mention that reloading gives you the chance to taylor your ammo to suit what you want it to do?)
A good example is what I did this year with my wife. She decided that she wants to join me in my hunting trip, and hunt for te first time in her life.
My only hunting rifle is a 3006, and with mormal hunting loads it has a recoil that is a tad heavy for a lady that weighs a mere 46Kg.
I loaded ammo with very mild felocities, which reduced the recoil by about 20%, this allowed me to teach her and let her practice often.
When we did go hunting, I let her use ammo loaded to higher velocity; the result was that all she neeeded was a single shot. with perfect bullet placement her first buck was down. as expected, not only she does not remember the recoil, but she says that she did not even register the noise of teh shot.
One may argue that this is different than an SD situation, I think that it is very relevant. the excitement of the hunt creates similar reactions in our body as an armed encounter would.
Brgds,
Danny
Hi,
I believe that one can become very proficient without necessarily shooting all the time the same ammo that one carries.
My reasons are:
1. JHP ammo is invariably more expensive, so for most people, using it all the time means less shooting.
2. By using cheaper ( and with milder recoil) ammo, once can shoot more and avoid developing any of the myriad of bad habits that can result from shooting a gun that recoils very hard. This is more so when one has a very light gun that tends to recoil very hard with "hot" ammunition.
So, with ammo that is not premium grade( without taking it to the extreme where the practice ammo is ridiculously soft) , one can practice more and be proficient. If and when you need to defend yourself your body will be so affected by the adrenaline and emotions, that the additonal recoil will go unnoticed, but you will be shooting correctly, which means a better chance of shooting fast and accurately. (Did I mention that reloading gives you the chance to taylor your ammo to suit what you want it to do?)
A good example is what I did this year with my wife. She decided that she wants to join me in my hunting trip, and hunt for te first time in her life.
My only hunting rifle is a 3006, and with mormal hunting loads it has a recoil that is a tad heavy for a lady that weighs a mere 46Kg.
I loaded ammo with very mild felocities, which reduced the recoil by about 20%, this allowed me to teach her and let her practice often.
When we did go hunting, I let her use ammo loaded to higher velocity; the result was that all she neeeded was a single shot. with perfect bullet placement her first buck was down. as expected, not only she does not remember the recoil, but she says that she did not even register the noise of teh shot.
One may argue that this is different than an SD situation, I think that it is very relevant. the excitement of the hunt creates similar reactions in our body as an armed encounter would.
Brgds,
Danny
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It should be mentioned that wadcutters are used in revolvers not auto's as they won't feed properly.
This might be of interest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiwadcutter
wadcutterhttp: http://www.firearmsid.com/Bullets/images/bt08.jpg
semi-wadcutter: http://www.firearmsid.com/Bullets/images/bt07.jpg
This might be of interest:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiwadcutter
wadcutterhttp: http://www.firearmsid.com/Bullets/images/bt08.jpg
semi-wadcutter: http://www.firearmsid.com/Bullets/images/bt07.jpg
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great
Really a fine set of responses. Great pictures and links.
It might be noted, also, that semi-wadcutters have applications well beyond target shooting. Elmer Keith developed his now classic "Keith semi-wadcutter" for big game hunting with the .44 magnum. In addition, one can make a good argument that all of the heavy, gas checked, flat nosed lead hunting bullets from Buffalo Bore and other companies are variations on the semi-wadcutter.
Pete
Really a fine set of responses. Great pictures and links.
It might be noted, also, that semi-wadcutters have applications well beyond target shooting. Elmer Keith developed his now classic "Keith semi-wadcutter" for big game hunting with the .44 magnum. In addition, one can make a good argument that all of the heavy, gas checked, flat nosed lead hunting bullets from Buffalo Bore and other companies are variations on the semi-wadcutter.
Pete
You are correct, b.thomas, in the "wadcutter" bullet, . . . but semi-wadcutters work super well in almost any quality semi-auto. I used to shoot them all the time when I was reloading on a scheduled basis, . . . now I just use some of my wife's extra cash and shoot WW white box fmj's from Wally World. 
BG: would you have any similar pictures of .45 bullets, . . . ???
May God bless,
Dwight
BG: would you have any similar pictures of .45 bullets, . . . ???
May God bless,
Dwight
Was shooting this week at the range and another person had a .45 but had bought SWC. The best he ever got was maybe three shots before it jammed mostly just two. Never did ask what gun he was shooting. Some autos will shoot them some won't
Most wadcutter round used for targets are low velocity and just not up to the job of SD
Most wadcutter round used for targets are low velocity and just not up to the job of SDoneounceload
Moderator
Besides the S&W 52 that shoots 38 spl WC, there are numerous other semi target pistols that shoot 32 WC - they're just not that popular due to the expense of the pistol
As has been mentioned - FMJ for paper shooting is a LOT cheaper than shooting SD JHP ammunition - if you can shoot the same weight bullet, your POA/POI should be close enough
Stevie-Ray
New member
It's relevant when they're asking: range guns or carry/defensive guns? A range gun is something you have fun with. It can be called upon for defense in a pinch, but mostly is used for fun/relaxation by punching holes in paper, bowling pins, cans, etc.
Well, I do, but there are many that do not, as shooting premium defensive ammo is quite expensive. I do it by not shooting much; maybe 20 rounds or so each from my defensive guns. Just enough to know that I am still current with recoil, point of aim/point of impact, etc. If I find I have slumped somewhat, I punish myself by shooting more til I am proficient. The extra money I have to spend sparks me to going back to the range in a timely manner.
Others do it by finding a cheaper load that somewhat mimics their pet defensive load in recoil and POA/POI. Of course, the easiest way to do that is to reload, but most don't want to spend the up front money to start. Over 20 years ago, when I was shooting my Colt Mark IV at the range for hundreds of rounds per week, I found my pet reload shot to the same POI as .45 ACP Winchester Silver Tips. As I was using the Colt for home defense at the time, I loaded it with Silver Tips. Shot maybe 1 or 2 mags of STs at every range trip. All the rest were 185 gr semi-wadcutters.