what's the deal with carcano rifles?

T

tahunua001

New member
hello all.
a couple days ago I was at fairchild air force base wrapping up my obligations to uncle sam when I decided that since I was only 20 miles from the nearest cabelas(which I never have had the chance to go to) I would go check it out. well cabelas was it's usual, seemingly overpriced plethora of junk I really "need" but stopping by their used gun racks I was surprised that they had an entire rack(about 2 dozen guns) devoted entirely to carcano rifles. I had never batted 2 eyelashes at them when I saw them at gunshows but I am quite curious as to the sudden availibility of them. the prices were nothing to call home about being about the same as the yugo mausers and norico SKS's sitting behind the new gun counter.

so why is everyone and their dogs suddenly selling their carcanos?
 
Mostly because...they're pretty sad excuses of a rifle, dang near anything is better,
and it has a black mark of notoriety for being the rifle that killed John F. Kennedy...
For the same money & a FFL03 (C&R), you can get a wide variety of really NICE WW1/WW2/Korean-era rifles sent to your home...

Yes, I'm old...
Yes, I still hold a grudge...
Yes, I still hate Jane Fonda...and wouldn't mind if Kalifornia quaked off the map & took all the current movie stars with it ;)
 
Agreed they are a poor excuse for a rifle, even the Russians built better, overall. Also, there is no surplus ammo market for them (and never was much of one).

For a long time they were dirt cheap, and, other than French, the least desirable of the collectible milsurplus bolt guns. This was long before the fall of communism let the Russians sell their surplus in the US, at dirt cheap prices, which stimulated the whole collector market.

The most common caliber, the 6.5mm Carcano is by itself, not a bad round. BUT, its modest velocity, (2200fps) and the fact that it is only found in Carcano rifles kept it from being very popular in the US, and finding ammo was a real problem for many years. Today, nearly all the old rounds are being loaded by somebody, but niche rounds like the Carcano are expensive, for what you get.

The 7.35mm Italian is even more scarce and while you might be able to find some, good luck.

There were also some Carcanos (the bigger caliber ones, although it might have been a different Italian rifle, I no longer recall, and am too lazy to look it up :D) the Germans converted to 8mm Mauser. Most folks I know would be real hesitant about shooting one of them.

My old Lyman manual warns about the wide variations of groove diameter found in these rifles, with many being well over the proper .264" bore, and to beware of gas blow by if using .264 bullets in one of them. Always wear safety glasses and they recommend using cast bullets sized to the bore of the individual gun.

My guess about why there are so many Carcanos on the rack is that as our "Greatest Generation" passes, the guns they brought back as war prizes, and the guns they bought cheap during the 50s-60s are being sold by their decendants. Another thing about a rack full of Carcanos, that tells you that no one is buying them, much. And for good reason.

They are awkward, in rare calibers, not noted for accuracy, not easily converted to anything else, or sporterized. Also there is the whole "Oswald's gun" thing, which still makes a difference, to some people.
 
I kindof got the vibe that they were probably being sold with good reason. they are fairly small and a lot of them seemed like they had the stocks cut down at least a little so I guess you would call them semi-sporters. I'm not 100% but I think there may have been one of those 8mm conversions on the rack but again, can't remember.

I was kindof tinkering with the idea of converting one to 308 which if the bores were that badly done, would have to be bored out to a nominal diameter anyway, the only problem would be shooting a roughly 51mm case out of a 52mm chamber.
 
Whole lot of rumor flying here. I am not a fan of Carcanos, but I still take "Lee Harvey" out for a doe now and then. My sister found it in a barn when she bought her farm and it looks pretty scarey. I put a scope on and did not bother to clean it up. Rough weather gun. Shoots as good @ 100 yards as most surplus guns I have shot, and a lot better than some. "Oswald stigma?" What about Mr. Schickilgruber's rifles?
 
There is no deal with Carcanos.

Salvatore Carcano designed that gun using innovations from some of the best rifles of the day, ca. 1890. The rifle was officially adopted in 1891 and served well until 1945 as a military rifle, and for some decades after WWII as a police weapon in Italy.

Probably the rifles you saw in Cabela's were surplus rifles from Finland who used them with good effect against the Russians in the Winter and Continuation Wars. Did they have the letters "SA" inside a rectangular box with rounded corners?

It's also possible, since you say they looked to have "cut down" stocks, that they were 1891 "Moschetto" models that used a half stock and a folding spike bayonet ala SKS. These were used by Italian police well into the 1960s, at least.

Interestingly enough, it is stated that many privately held weapons used in the recent Libyan Civil War were Carcanos.

Granted, they aren't the smoothest operating rifle in the world, but they are made of good steels and were suitably adequate for the purpose intended.
 
I alwayse thought they were a neat looking rifle, I looked at a nice one today, guy wanted $300 and it wasnt import marked.
Most of the Young People I know that shoot like the AR 15s and all that Jazz, Let um. It frees up the kind of guns I like.
 
My old Lyman manual warns about the wide variations of groove diameter found in these rifles, with many being well over the proper .264" bore, and to beware of gas blow by if using .264 bullets in one of them. Always wear safety glasses and they recommend using cast bullets sized to the bore of the individual gun.
Click to expand...

I really think this misunderstanding (along with the JFK stigma) shows where so much of the Carcano hate comes from. They tend to shoot like crap with standard 6.5mm bullets (.264") because the standard groove diameter for them was .268"!
 
I was given a Carcano for nothing in the 1970's. It's stock looked like dried up driftwood. That was the most forgetable gun I ever owned. I gave it away within 24hrs from my locker, without ever bringing it home. The only place they belong, except of course the one that's in the Smithsonian, is in a crusher.
 
There seems to be no "cachet" or mystique attached to Carcanos or Italian military firearms or militaria in general. I don't understand the "Lee Harvey Oswald Stigma", how many war surplus P-38s and 98ks were used against GI Joes, how do you know that 32 ACP bringback wasn't used by some SS type to execute partisans or innocent civilians?
 
I also do not understand weapon stigma. funny how with carcanos everyone seems to dislike them because oswald used one while everyone loves the FN fiveseven because the fort hood shooting prooved the lethality of the round.

I dont care if a rifle was shot by sergeant Alvin York, Vasiele Zaitsev, or Kim Jung Il, if it works and I can afford the ammo, I like it. if it was a load of horse manure that was molded and baked until crusty and costs 2 dollars every tim eI squeeze the trigger...not so much.
 
I don't understand the "Lee Harvey Oswald Stigma", how many war surplus P-38s and 98ks were used against GI Joes, how do you know that 32 ACP bringback wasn't used by some SS type to execute partisans or innocent civilians?
Click to expand...

You're trying to attach logic to a purely emotional issue. The execution of a random innocent German civilian didn't exactly provoke the same emotional response as the assassination of a popular sitting US President. You have to remember the mantra of the gun grabbers, it was the guns fault!
 
The Carcano is on my list of Guns to Own Sooner or later I will add one to my collection. I think its a neat looking little carbine, but thats just me.
 
My local shop has a couple of these for $175 each. I've been thinking about grabbing one up. PRVI makes commercial reloadable ammo at $15 a box.
 
A lot of the "stigma" of the Carcano comes from the same anti-gun gang that promoted the "Saturday Night Special" and "assault rifle" names in an effort to ban military surplus, inexpensive handguns and semi-automatics. They were, of course, aided and abetted by folks like gunsmokePTF ("the only place they belong is in a crusher") not realizing that if the gun grabbers can put Carcanos in a crusher, their own "good" guns will soon follow.

I have some personal experience in that area. A local author, who wrote on the JFK assassination (one of the many conspiracy nuts) asked a retired colonel, a military target shooter, about the Carcano. The colonel, who thought the only good gun was a National Match Springfield, told the writer that a Carcano couldn't shoot 100 yards and didn't have the accuracy or the power to hurt anyone. Naturally, the writer, anxious to find anything that would point the finger of blame away from his hero, Fidel Castro, lapped it up, and such nonsense has continued to dog any discussion of the Carcano ever since.

In fact, the Carcano is not junk, it was quite a decent rifle in 1891 (the U.S. was still using the trapdoor Springfield), pretty much in line with what other nations were adopting at the time. At that time, the 6.5 was considered state of the art, with light recoil and light ammo, but with sufficient power and accuracy for lethality at normal battle ranges. In fact, the same justifications given for the adoption of the 5.56mm by the U.S. some 70 years later. It was obsolete by WWII, but so were other rifles, including the much loved Swedish 6.5x55.

Jim
 
Wish I picked up a Carcano. The WW2 generation hated them, so they were cheap for a very long time.

Handled them, I guess I let other people's opinions sway me too much and I did not buy.

It would be interesting to compare to other 1890 designs.

Basically all bolt gun actions became obsolescent once the M1898 action was perfected. There were service rifle actions developed later, but the 98 action was still the best. At least in my opinion.

The other variations, including the Carcano, they worked well enough that they were kept in service.
 
James K, I'm sorry you took my quote about the Carcano litterally. Could we get back to reality for just one moment? Please don't put words into my mouth, because of your interpretation. It's only my opinion that that rifle is garbage. They weren't dependable and couldn't even be counted on to assist in a suicide. Remember now, I actually owned one for almost a full day.

That's not to say that the cartridge was bad, or good, cause I don't know. I've been around guns for over 50 years, but even back then I was practically forced to take it. That particular one was frightening and there was no way I'd ever put my cheek on that stock and fire it. I even had trouble giving it away. I hate cheap pen guns too, but guess they have their place, though I'd never own one.

I have no problem with people wanting to own one for whatever their reason may be. I don't believe in gun confiscation. The Philidelphia derringer was used to assassinate Lincoln and I like that gun a lot. I don't hate it with it's connection to JFK. I'm not completely convinced that that dog Oswald was able to do what's claimed he did with that weapon and I didn't mean to insult dogs.

I love italian guns. I have 2 beautiful italian shotguns and my 1st gun ever, which I still have since I was 8 is an 1875 Vetterli, that was brought back from France after the war. People should collect whatever they like. No one should get their panties in a bunch just because a particular gun is called crap and that's even if it's true. Only the one who designed it should be insulted, but won't be cause he's dead a long time. Also, I don't like being put into the category of acting in concert with the gun grabbers. Anyone who knows me personally would laugh at that. Your accusation towards me would be like me saying you wrote your post in a mental ward. That's also rediculous, cause I don't know you , or where you actually are. By the way Jim I'm gunsmokeTPF and not PTF.
 
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I can remember reading F&S or outdoor life when I was a kid
and Carcanos were $7 shipped to your house.
Things change.
 
My first gun was a Carcano, just like the JFK gun. My Father went with me to the Army Surplus Store because I was about 11 when I bought it. It was about $14. I killed my first deer with it. The sights stank, ammo had to be loaded into a clip, and you could only get ammo at that Surplus store. It was serviceable and like I said, I killed my first deer with it. It I could get another one for $14 I’d just keep it in my truck as my ‘better than a sharp stick’ gun. BTW, I remember it as being very loud and hard kicking.
 
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