what's the best "manstopping" cartrige for 200m and in.

B

bullfrog99

New member
Where i live, 200 yards is about the maximum shot i would need to ever take on game, or use for defense. I was wondering what cartrige you would put your faith in as the ultimate anti-personal round within this range, meaning quick incapacitation. I was concidering 444 marlin 45-70 and 12 ga heavy Brenneke slugs in a rifled barrel. I like the 308, but within 200 yards, i figure the aformentioned rounds will do better. am i making any sense, or should i just stick to my 223 poodle shooter?
 
Head shots

Shot placement is everything. Reread Charles Henderson's, "Marine Sniper," and you'll find a part about Gunny Hathcock drilling the badguy in the chest with a 30-06. The badguy responded by charging towards Hathcock. He fired again. No effect. Finally, a head shot dropped him.
 
I'm dubious that the use of a typical hunting bullet in an '06 would have somebody "charging". :)

Charles Whitman managed to ruin many folks' day with a 6mm Remington, including one guy at 420 yards.

A hunting bullet from any rifle cartridge with more punch than a .22 Hornet or .222 Remington will change the mind of the average fella, center hit or no.

Having autopsied a few deer after ruination from a .243, I wouldn't lack confidence in dealing with a hostile fella.

The most important thing is being able to hit. As usual, practice, practice, practice--and not from a benchrest.

Art
 
One of these bad boys loaded with a fletchette round and the tube cranked down would be pretty effective. The few times I saw it in action it was pretty awe inspiring!! Not a whole lot that didn't have a few darts in it.
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nice, i even like the color! can i get a set of houge monogrips for it? as for recoil, which would be a more merciful way for me to go, in front of the muzzel or behind?
 
I think I read in "BlackHawk Down" that the Rangers were penetrating the Samolies with the .223 in 62gr. and it was perferating them with no "imediate" effect. Sure, the average "sane" fella would drop and yell for mom, but a pissed off, adreniline-pumping, 3rd world rag-a-muffin' with noting to lose appearantly sees things different. The .223 is fine just stick with the 55gr. I have also heard the same type of phenomena directly from an ex-mil. medic (now U.S. doctor) from Singapore. The 62gr. perferating people leaving a clean 5.56mm hole, in and out. He said the 55gr. created nastier wounds in his limited experience. He figured the 55gr destablized and took a different path than just in and out...but that's old news to some of you.
 
Bullfrog,
I am gonna opt for a med weight .308 round. Mil Surplus between 162 and 169 grains. Reason being is suplus is available and a wide variety and should always be, 30-06 is and will get harder to find. No disrespect is intended to the round.
As for the .223 check out some Portugeese .55 On impact at 200 yards the bullet starts to tumble. Then canachure breaks, sending about 15 small pieces of lead every which way. I would dare say a running or walking target would not be upright for more than 50-60 yards.
When in doubt, double tap.

I will find the post and get the link there, there is some scary Fragmenting stuff on there.

Karsten
 
It is a fact that below a certain terminal velocity .223 FMJ rounds do not fracture, tumble, or expand very much.

This is a good reference, with figures for both M193 and M855 5.56 rounds: http://www.firearmstactical.com/wound.htm

If you want to avoid the "little hole" phenomenon that is rumored to plague 5.56 in certain conditions, I might suggest a .308 round designed for high expansion. I wonder how well a 130gr "varmint" bullet would do? You could probably even load it down a bit, at those ranges.

-z
 
I'm with Art. Hunting ammo is a whole different arena from military ball ammo. I've shot deer and hogs with hunting ammo. I've killed a few feral dogs with military surplus.
The wound channels from hunting ammo even in the lesser calibers are crippling even with poor shot placement. Let's see how far someone charges with their intestines dragging the ground. The wound channels from ball ammo depend on shot placement destroying an organ that is instantly fatal(heart, cervical spine, or brain), crippling (central nervous system, pelvic, femur etc.) or blood loss to kill or disable. Blood loss -unless sudden and massive is not an immediate stopper.

I don't want to get shot at all but if I had to choose...I'd choose a .30-06 with ball ammo over Art's 243 with any decent hunting round. The trauma team would have a lot more of me to work with.

I chose to deer hunt last year with a Remington 150 gr. Corelokt in .300 Winchester Magnum. Bad choice for deer.
I shot a buck at about a hundred yards in the left front shoulder. The bullet would have exited the opposite side around his short ribs if it had held together. It didn't. It fragmented into at least two major pieces and the path diverted. The larger fragment exited the deer just in front of his right hip. The exit wound was about two and a half by five inches. The other major fragment made almost a ninety degree turn and was under the skin in front of his left hip. The only organ that was not totally destroyed in this deer's thoracic and abdominal cavity was its bladder. Talk about a mess. 180 gr. Corelokt work fine.

Even with a rifle, if you're talking your life...don't bet on ball especially because of price. How much is your life worth? And how easily can you replace it?
 
smithz, back a long time ago, my father, uncle and I would go out at night, spotlighting jackrabbits. I can tell you that a 110-grain bullet out of an '06 at around 3,500 ft/sec creates pre-masticated jackrabbit pieces, for toothless dogs.

I always thought it would be a rather anti-social sort of bad-fella load...

During those long, cold, Colorado winter nights, one can load up a bunch of 110-grain stuff. Sorta like folks down here, during those long, hot, Terlingua summer afternoons...

:), Art
 
Bullfrog, I don't suppose it would surprise anyone that I like the idea of the .444 Marlin. If you are a reloader, this caliber pretty much can do it all, same for the .45/70. First of all in an antipersonel role, the lever action seems like it would be a little faster handling than a bolt action. It is also much cheaper than the semi-autos along with being much more PC. The Marlin rifle that I own is very accurate even in comparison with any of my bolt actions. As far as ammo, again, you can do it all with a straight walled case like the .444 (I realize it is not litterally stright walled, but it looks like it). You can handload 300 grain bullets to give you the muzzle energy of a .338 Win Mag. For two legged critters you can handload any of the lighter skinned .44 Mag bullets at super high velocity. I don't have any actual experience with a load like that, but I assume that it would come apart like a big varmint bullet upon hitting the target. You can handload shotshells that are basically the same as a .410 shotgun. You can load multiple ball loads, the list goes on and on. You can't go wrong with any of the calibers mentioned, this just happens to be one of my faviorites.
 
Pre-masticated.

Art, I loaded up a bunch of 110gr plinker loads last winter for the FAL - I have yet to test them. I am a bit worried about feed reliability. I think that something like a Speer TNT (HP) or Hornady VMAX might feed better in a semi-auto.

-z
 
Something in .308 (M-1A) or 30-06 (M-1 Garand) so you can buy bulk and practice. Then get some 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets and some IMR4895 and make some nice loads of your own. A .308 or 30-06 in a hunting bullet is devastating.

[Edited by riverdog on 05-04-2001 at 02:58 PM]
 
smithz, ain't but one way to find out: Load some in a mag and crank the old handle! The magazine lips should control mostly on the case, anyway.

Kinda like Tuco in "The Good, The Bad And The Ugly": "If you're gonna shoot, shoot! Don' talk!"

:D, Art
 
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