jeffelkins
New member
Other than a revolver, it's a wonderful beginners's gun. Easy to fieldstrip and clean, simple gunsmithing tasks (changing a trigger assembly) are trivial and it goes bang everytime you pull the trigger.
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What's so special about the Glock? (Pt. II)
- Thread starter jeffelkins
- Start date
Of course, since I read every reply on the original posting, I feel the need to throw in my $0.000012489715 (which is my 2 cents after state, federal, local, FICA, Social Security, taxes)
I am anal, I do major studies on a product for at least a good 6 month before I buy it. From all data I can gather, I had narrowed my choices of my first hand gun to 3, HK, Glock, and Sig.
First, those who start sentences with "Tupperware this..." or "Glocks SUCK that..." are inherently bigoted and no amount of facts will change their minds. No big deal, we'll just call them democrats...
But Glock has a few things they do well, and of those, they do REALLY well. That's why they are a household name...
Pros:
Simplicity. Ease of cleaning, Ease of use, consistancy. Every glock pulls the same out of the box, every glock has one item to mess with, the trigger, and every glock (assuming no clip problems) generally goes BOOM when you pull the trigger. This might sound simple, but very few gun companies have made it as ABC as Glock has. The Tenifer finish and durability is just icing on the cake.
Not so good things about Glocks. Not-fully supported barrels. I often wished I could buy a Glock without a barrel so I can spend that money on a Bar-Sto or Jarvis. This is a joke, and for such a fine handgun, there should be better barrels. The grip angle is horrible, makes my shots ride high.
I wish they made a single stack version in the compact model. That would be great! Since a la Clinton we are limited to 10 rounds, (yeah, vote for Gore so he can reduce it to 5 rounds!) a single stack would be great, it would make the slide as slim as a Kahr! Then it would fit my gf's hands better.
The other major point is expansion. The barrels allow bullet expansion to too rediculous of a degree.
I like the Sigs, I want a Sig, Swiss watch made into a gun as I like to call it, but they don't have near the left-hander ergonomics as Glocks.
Do Glocks cure cancer? No. Are they good guns? Yes. I hear Glock lovers sometimes and while some is justified, some is just blind alligence, which bothers me. I say the same thing about linux, while I love linux and use it at work and home, there are those who feel linux cures cancer also, it doesn't. Glocks are machines, they can fail, they are for the most part, reliable, but they can fail. They are however well designed machines. If you like them, great! Buy them. If you don't, great, buy something else!
You can obtain the same reliabilty as a Glock from an HK. Sig probably has better accuracy out of the box than a Glock. So glock is a great gun, but a "übergun" it's not.
But from a cost/benefit ratio, it's pretty hard to beat a glock.
Whatever your preference, shoot often, shoot safe. If Glocks had a slimmer line, a fully supported barrel, and slightly better grip angle, it would be the perfect gun IMHO.
Glock Perfection? No. Glock Perfection as compared to any other gun you can get at that price? Maybe. Something I'd reach for if someone broke into my house and I had one chance to put a cap in the guy before he shoots me? Yes.
Finally, let's talk about looks. I asked my gf in my decision of guns which she likes, or thinks is better looking. She looked at me and said, "I thought guns were a utilitarian thing, so what does looks have to do with it? Don't you just care that it goes bang everytime you pull the trigger, and sends a bullet in the general direction where you aimed it?" WOW, what insight! There are guns that should never be fired, (Saw a $7K 1911 before, that is what comes to mind... Mother of Pearl grip etc...) Then there are 110% utilitarian guns. Glock is the ladder. Want a pretty gun? Don't get a glock. Want a gun you can shoot 100K rnds through? Get a glock. BTW, as far as LE, the fact that the accessories for Glock is like $3-$5 makes it an ideal choice for LE. Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and easy to transition from revolvers to semi's.
So I end with a little message to Glock:
Glock:
1) Those plastic guide rods, where did you get them, McDonalds' happy meals? Get some metal in there! What, an additional $15 for tungsten ones? Cheaper if in mass quantity? I'm sure it would cost you guys next to nothing, and most would pay the $10 markup for better rods. There's no need to cheapen out on the details.
2) If the state trooper is correct, (I have no reason to doubt him) then stop shipping clips that are bad, you are endangering the lives of people when you do, not to mention creating bad press for yourself.
3) Ship with a fully supported barrel. Jarvis, Olympic, Bar-Sto can all do it, why can't you?
4) Reduce the grip angle.
Sorry for the extra long post!
Shoot safe!
Albert
I am anal, I do major studies on a product for at least a good 6 month before I buy it. From all data I can gather, I had narrowed my choices of my first hand gun to 3, HK, Glock, and Sig.
First, those who start sentences with "Tupperware this..." or "Glocks SUCK that..." are inherently bigoted and no amount of facts will change their minds. No big deal, we'll just call them democrats...
But Glock has a few things they do well, and of those, they do REALLY well. That's why they are a household name...
Pros:
Simplicity. Ease of cleaning, Ease of use, consistancy. Every glock pulls the same out of the box, every glock has one item to mess with, the trigger, and every glock (assuming no clip problems) generally goes BOOM when you pull the trigger. This might sound simple, but very few gun companies have made it as ABC as Glock has. The Tenifer finish and durability is just icing on the cake.
Not so good things about Glocks. Not-fully supported barrels. I often wished I could buy a Glock without a barrel so I can spend that money on a Bar-Sto or Jarvis. This is a joke, and for such a fine handgun, there should be better barrels. The grip angle is horrible, makes my shots ride high.
I wish they made a single stack version in the compact model. That would be great! Since a la Clinton we are limited to 10 rounds, (yeah, vote for Gore so he can reduce it to 5 rounds!) a single stack would be great, it would make the slide as slim as a Kahr! Then it would fit my gf's hands better.
The other major point is expansion. The barrels allow bullet expansion to too rediculous of a degree.
I like the Sigs, I want a Sig, Swiss watch made into a gun as I like to call it, but they don't have near the left-hander ergonomics as Glocks.
Do Glocks cure cancer? No. Are they good guns? Yes. I hear Glock lovers sometimes and while some is justified, some is just blind alligence, which bothers me. I say the same thing about linux, while I love linux and use it at work and home, there are those who feel linux cures cancer also, it doesn't. Glocks are machines, they can fail, they are for the most part, reliable, but they can fail. They are however well designed machines. If you like them, great! Buy them. If you don't, great, buy something else!
You can obtain the same reliabilty as a Glock from an HK. Sig probably has better accuracy out of the box than a Glock. So glock is a great gun, but a "übergun" it's not.
But from a cost/benefit ratio, it's pretty hard to beat a glock.
Whatever your preference, shoot often, shoot safe. If Glocks had a slimmer line, a fully supported barrel, and slightly better grip angle, it would be the perfect gun IMHO.
Glock Perfection? No. Glock Perfection as compared to any other gun you can get at that price? Maybe. Something I'd reach for if someone broke into my house and I had one chance to put a cap in the guy before he shoots me? Yes.
Finally, let's talk about looks. I asked my gf in my decision of guns which she likes, or thinks is better looking. She looked at me and said, "I thought guns were a utilitarian thing, so what does looks have to do with it? Don't you just care that it goes bang everytime you pull the trigger, and sends a bullet in the general direction where you aimed it?" WOW, what insight! There are guns that should never be fired, (Saw a $7K 1911 before, that is what comes to mind... Mother of Pearl grip etc...) Then there are 110% utilitarian guns. Glock is the ladder. Want a pretty gun? Don't get a glock. Want a gun you can shoot 100K rnds through? Get a glock. BTW, as far as LE, the fact that the accessories for Glock is like $3-$5 makes it an ideal choice for LE. Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, and easy to transition from revolvers to semi's.
So I end with a little message to Glock:
Glock:
1) Those plastic guide rods, where did you get them, McDonalds' happy meals? Get some metal in there! What, an additional $15 for tungsten ones? Cheaper if in mass quantity? I'm sure it would cost you guys next to nothing, and most would pay the $10 markup for better rods. There's no need to cheapen out on the details.
2) If the state trooper is correct, (I have no reason to doubt him) then stop shipping clips that are bad, you are endangering the lives of people when you do, not to mention creating bad press for yourself.
3) Ship with a fully supported barrel. Jarvis, Olympic, Bar-Sto can all do it, why can't you?
4) Reduce the grip angle.
Sorry for the extra long post!
Shoot safe!
Albert
CassandraComplex
New member
THE ONLY GLOCKS THAT HAVE NOT-FULLY-SUPPORTED CHAMBERS ARE THE .40 and .45. The rest have very well supported chambers (the 9mm, 10mm and .357 Sig). The .45 tends to be little problems because it is a low pressure round. The .40 is a small small problem because it is not fully supported in the chamber AND it is a high pressure round. OTHER GUNS HAVE NOT-FULLY-SUPPORTED CHAMBERS TOO, NOT JUST GLOCKS. Other guns also have case failures and blow up with bad reloads.
DerGlockenpooper
New member
A person can only speak from his own personal experience and hope that it is indicative of the whole.
I bought my first Glock in the late 1980's. It was a Glock 17 for $385. That same gun, almost 15 years later can easily be found for $449 brand new, with all the upgrades like finger grooves and accessory rails. That does not seem like a large markup for 15 years of time.
That same Glock 17 that I bought back then is still shooting to this day. I have no idea how many cases of ammo I put through it but has been a LOT. The more I shoot it, the sweeter it gets. It has never ever ever had one single failure to fire and never had a single part replaced.
It goes bang every time I pull the trigger and it hits exactly what I am aiming at (Glocks are just as accurate as you are with them).
Over the years, I have owned at least two dozen Glocks, some of them I was able to hang on to and put tens of thousands of rounds through, and some I only put half a case through and then someone offered me more than I paid for it, so I sold it to buy another new one.
In all the Glocks I have owned, right out of the box I have never never had a single FTF unless I put on a crappy aftermarket product. If I make this mistake of adding aftermarket "upgrades" to my Glock then the minute I put the gun back to stock, it runs perfectly again. This is why people tell you to run your Glock stock. If you want to improve your shooting, buy a case of ammo and learn to shoot the gun rather than trying to buy skill by upgrading the gun. This is the attitude of most Glockers and I like that. Get out and shoot your gun and improve your skill. You do not need a new fancy gun or a new upgrade, you just need to practice and improve you skill.
I also own a Glock 21 with 10 preban magazines and a few post ban mags. I have never had a FTF with that gun with any mag.
I have also spent my share of money on other guns and I just keep comging back to the Glocks. You name a combat handgun, and I have owned one, or even probably two of them (many many $1000's of dollars). I can afford any gun I want if I put my mind to it. I have owned multiple $2000+ pistols at a given time (the kind that we all lust about and dream about). But, what gun do I CHOOSE to carry when my life is on the line? A Glock.
There are many many other people out there, like world class insctructors who can carry any gun they want (often for free), and they CHOOSE to carry a Glock. It is not about price. Price does not determine value, especially when your life is on the line. You carry the best. And for many, the BEST is Glock, period.
Glocks are the ultimate defensive carry pistol.
They are as accurate as you are with them.
They are basically rust proof.
They are basically maintenence free, within reason (people abuse this trait a little).
They are light to carry, and you can carry them right up next to your skin.
They are easy to operate, no frills.
They have the same trigger pull all the time.
They hit where I point them...they aim naturally for me, and any Glock I pick up, any where in the world, any model, I am instantly a master combat marksman with because they are all the same.
I can find holsters and such very easily. No problems getting gear for a Glock (This is a huge hassle with some of the nicer guns I own).
I can strip one completely down and change out parts myself. Just from owning them and taking them a part a couple times, I am basically a master Glocksmith. You name it, I can do it to a Glock, and probably for only a few bucks (parts range from $1 to $5 on up, and are easy to find).
People will be shooting Glocks for the next hundred years if they remain legal (we must fight for that!). Once you shoot Glocks and become as familiar as I am with them, there is just no reason to change. (Just like 1911 owners). I don't care if something close to a Glock comes out, it ain't a Glock and I know Glocks inside and out.
I do NOT carry a Glock because cops do. I bought my first Glock before any agencies I know of used them, and all my friends laughed at me for buying one. Now they all carry Glocks %100 of the time.
And the bestest reason for carrying a Glock : When you pull the trigger, it goes "BANG", every single time. Period.
That is my experience. That is why "people" (and least "I") love Glocks.
I bought my first Glock in the late 1980's. It was a Glock 17 for $385. That same gun, almost 15 years later can easily be found for $449 brand new, with all the upgrades like finger grooves and accessory rails. That does not seem like a large markup for 15 years of time.
That same Glock 17 that I bought back then is still shooting to this day. I have no idea how many cases of ammo I put through it but has been a LOT. The more I shoot it, the sweeter it gets. It has never ever ever had one single failure to fire and never had a single part replaced.
It goes bang every time I pull the trigger and it hits exactly what I am aiming at (Glocks are just as accurate as you are with them).
Over the years, I have owned at least two dozen Glocks, some of them I was able to hang on to and put tens of thousands of rounds through, and some I only put half a case through and then someone offered me more than I paid for it, so I sold it to buy another new one.
In all the Glocks I have owned, right out of the box I have never never had a single FTF unless I put on a crappy aftermarket product. If I make this mistake of adding aftermarket "upgrades" to my Glock then the minute I put the gun back to stock, it runs perfectly again. This is why people tell you to run your Glock stock. If you want to improve your shooting, buy a case of ammo and learn to shoot the gun rather than trying to buy skill by upgrading the gun. This is the attitude of most Glockers and I like that. Get out and shoot your gun and improve your skill. You do not need a new fancy gun or a new upgrade, you just need to practice and improve you skill.
I also own a Glock 21 with 10 preban magazines and a few post ban mags. I have never had a FTF with that gun with any mag.
I have also spent my share of money on other guns and I just keep comging back to the Glocks. You name a combat handgun, and I have owned one, or even probably two of them (many many $1000's of dollars). I can afford any gun I want if I put my mind to it. I have owned multiple $2000+ pistols at a given time (the kind that we all lust about and dream about). But, what gun do I CHOOSE to carry when my life is on the line? A Glock.
There are many many other people out there, like world class insctructors who can carry any gun they want (often for free), and they CHOOSE to carry a Glock. It is not about price. Price does not determine value, especially when your life is on the line. You carry the best. And for many, the BEST is Glock, period.
Glocks are the ultimate defensive carry pistol.
They are as accurate as you are with them.
They are basically rust proof.
They are basically maintenence free, within reason (people abuse this trait a little).
They are light to carry, and you can carry them right up next to your skin.
They are easy to operate, no frills.
They have the same trigger pull all the time.
They hit where I point them...they aim naturally for me, and any Glock I pick up, any where in the world, any model, I am instantly a master combat marksman with because they are all the same.
I can find holsters and such very easily. No problems getting gear for a Glock (This is a huge hassle with some of the nicer guns I own).
I can strip one completely down and change out parts myself. Just from owning them and taking them a part a couple times, I am basically a master Glocksmith. You name it, I can do it to a Glock, and probably for only a few bucks (parts range from $1 to $5 on up, and are easy to find).
People will be shooting Glocks for the next hundred years if they remain legal (we must fight for that!). Once you shoot Glocks and become as familiar as I am with them, there is just no reason to change. (Just like 1911 owners). I don't care if something close to a Glock comes out, it ain't a Glock and I know Glocks inside and out.
I do NOT carry a Glock because cops do. I bought my first Glock before any agencies I know of used them, and all my friends laughed at me for buying one. Now they all carry Glocks %100 of the time.
And the bestest reason for carrying a Glock : When you pull the trigger, it goes "BANG", every single time. Period.
That is my experience. That is why "people" (and least "I") love Glocks.
I hated the plastic guide-rod too. Replace it with a Wolff rod and spring set ( http://www.gunsprings.com ). An added benefit is that you can use a stronger spring which reduces the felt recoil. Test with a few hundred rounds to make sure it's reliable, though. In a Glock 27, I think a 16# spring is stock, but lots of people use 18# and 20# with no problems.
-z
-z
I have to admit, going "bang" everytime you pull the trigger is a _BIG_ sell for me on the Glocks.
Tecolote: I haven't bought my gun yet!!! Just found a range by me that has both the SigPro SP2340 and the Glock 23 both for rent. So I'll get to test them side by side. I will more than likely buy the Sig.
I was about to buy the SigPro, but my computer monitor died, so I had to cough up my gun money for a monitor.
The Sig would have been an easy sell for me, but for the fact that I'm left-handed, and the Glock seems to be the ultimate unbiasness of hands.
kb!, brass expansion, grip angle are the major hurdles from me getting a Glock 23. I would think that because the .40 is a very hot caliber, that of all the barrels that are fully supported, a .40 would definitely be on the list..
Both are great guns, it's not picking the "better" one, but picking the one that fits me the best. I felt the HK's to be too bulky, but they are great guns as well.
Albert
Tecolote: I haven't bought my gun yet!!! Just found a range by me that has both the SigPro SP2340 and the Glock 23 both for rent. So I'll get to test them side by side. I will more than likely buy the Sig.
I was about to buy the SigPro, but my computer monitor died, so I had to cough up my gun money for a monitor.
The Sig would have been an easy sell for me, but for the fact that I'm left-handed, and the Glock seems to be the ultimate unbiasness of hands.
kb!, brass expansion, grip angle are the major hurdles from me getting a Glock 23. I would think that because the .40 is a very hot caliber, that of all the barrels that are fully supported, a .40 would definitely be on the list..
Both are great guns, it's not picking the "better" one, but picking the one that fits me the best. I felt the HK's to be too bulky, but they are great guns as well.
Albert
Twoblink,
I am a lefty also. I have a bunch of Sigs and they work great for me, I just use my index finger to manipulate the slide release, mag release and decocker. It comes naturally to me now. I stayed away from Sigs for a long time because of being a lefty and I wish I bought a Sig sooner. If you can, try the 229 before you make a decision.
I am a lefty also. I have a bunch of Sigs and they work great for me, I just use my index finger to manipulate the slide release, mag release and decocker. It comes naturally to me now. I stayed away from Sigs for a long time because of being a lefty and I wish I bought a Sig sooner. If you can, try the 229 before you make a decision.
mrat, I love the P229!! It's such a sweet gun to shoot! I loved it when I shot it, so that was why I looked at Sigs. The slide on the SigPro seems way beefier than the P series ones. Also, I like the switchable grips.
I'm ok and pretty much use to manipulating everything with my left index finger, but that mag release on the left side really bothers me, and so that would probably be the only thing I'd change....
I think of the SigPro's like a Glock with a Swiss watch precision...
Thanks though, I'm glad to hear a lefty say good things about Sigs.
Shoot safe!
Albert
I'm ok and pretty much use to manipulating everything with my left index finger, but that mag release on the left side really bothers me, and so that would probably be the only thing I'd change....
I think of the SigPro's like a Glock with a Swiss watch precision...
Thanks though, I'm glad to hear a lefty say good things about Sigs.
Shoot safe!
Albert
O.K. here is my .ooo123 cents worth! We just put the first 50 rounds thru my wifes new 19 and although I like it alot, it didn't feel as good in my hand as my beretta 92. It is perfect for my wife . It's very accurate and she can hit what she is shooting at with it. She can also rack the slide back without too much trouble. It jammed the first shot out of the box but then it performed well after that. We were shooting wolf ammo. My beretta never has a problem with it. I do feel comfortable knowing my wife has a quality made handgun that she can rely on.