Whats "Normal" +P Velocity for 9mm 115g?

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DougB

New member
I fired a few rounds of 9mm through my chronograph tonight. I've been using a case of 115gr South African Denel ammo I bought cheap. Velocity averaged around 1,060fps. This was lower than I had expected. Then I fired a couple of rounds of ammo I had loaded myself back in the late 1970s. It was also 115gr. Average velocity was 1,275fps. These were all from an SW99 (about a 4" barrel, I think).

This left me wondering, are the Denel rounds very light, or are my old reloads hot (or maybe both)? If memory serves, the reloads contain 7.2 grains of Herco (NOT Unique, as I originally posted) powder (I think this was an often mentioned "favorite" 9mm load in gun magazines back then). I don't know if this is a safe loading or not. I DO NOT recommend it or any loading. Do not try it unless you independently verify that it is safe in your gun.

Is there a good web source of velocity information on the velocities of various factory loadings, as well as maximum velocities safely obtainable through handloading with various powders and bullets?

Has anyone chronographed the South African PMP 9mm ammo? S&B? Other inexpensive practice ammo? Thanks.

My SW99 has consistently shot low, even with the lowest sight. I thought it was a problem with the gun - or that I at least needed a lower sight, but now I'm wondering if it could be the ammo I've been shooting.

Doug

[This message has been edited by DougB (edited September 29, 2000).]
 
From everything I have read and heard, the Denel rounds you have are loaded light. Your reloads are right there with Europeans "normal" loading, which equates to our +p.
 
Hello. I've chronographed the PMP 115 gr at about 1120 ft/sec, which is light. Federal M882 ball chronographed 1146 ft/sec and Speer 124 gr TMJ averaged 1141 ft/sec. Hornady's standard pressure 115 gr XTP gets 1161 ft/sec. Plus P loads are quite a bit higher in most cases.

Best.
 
CorBon +P 115 grain JHP's in 9mm shoots between 1325 and 1350 FPS.

CMOS

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How on earth did you fit 7.2 grains of Unique in a 9x19?!?!?!

BTW, the +P designations are pressure, not velocity, designations. +P is 10% over regular, and +P+ is 20% over. General rule of thumb is that a 5% increase in powder results in a 10% increase in pressure. 7.2 grains of Unique is 12% more powder than the highest load in my books, and would probably be considered +P+. I still can't figure out how you got that much power into that tiny brass. 6.5 grains is full to the brim.

[This message has been edited by Mikul (edited September 29, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="arial,helvetica">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mikul:
How on earth did you fit 7.2 grains of Unique in a 9x19?!?!?!

BTW, the +P designations are pressure, not velocity, designations. +P is 10% over regular, and +P+ is 20% over. General rule of thumb is that a 5% increase in powder results in a 10% increase in pressure. 7.2 grains of Unique is 12% more powder than the highest load in my books, and would probably be considered +P+. I still can't figure out how you got that much power into that tiny brass. 6.5 grains is full to the brim.
][/quote]

Mikul,
My mistake. Thanks for catching it...and for giving me second thoughts about the wisdom of posting questionable handloading info on the internet. Your message prompted me to go check the loading (which, fortunately, I'd written on some of the boxes). The load WHICH I DON'T SUGGEST, RECOMMEND, CONDONE, ADVISE, OR THINK IS OKAY, was 7.2 Grains of HERCO (not Unique, as I originally posted). According to my source (probably some writer in Guns & Ammo or Shooting Times from the 1970's who died shortly thereafter when his 9mm blew up), this should give about 1400 FPS with a 115 grain bullet. Let me state again that I am not recommending this, or any other loading. Check any loading data you use with reputable sources (clearly NOT me). Please don't try this loading unless you independently verify with reliable sources that it is safe in your gun. And for heaven's sake, DON'T use the erroneous Unique loading I originally posted by mistake.

Is that enough of a "disclaimer" yet? The thought that someone might be hurt because of info I posted is pretty disturbing. Thanks again for catching it Mikul.

Doug
 
Well, I could only heap 7.0 grains of Unique into the case. To do that, I had to grind it up into fine powder. Is that bad? Anyhow, I loaded it up with a 180 Grain .357 Silhouette bullet and took it to the range. I took my Taurus 99 ( with a really cool home gunsmithing 'meltdown' job on it ) and, being safe, just loaded up one round. To be more correct, I TRIED to load it up. The slide was 1/2" out of battery. Luckily, I had brought my hammer along. About ten good whacks and it was closed. Murphy's law kicked in and the safety was jammed on. Drat. Oh well. Thanks for the Reloading data, Doug. A few minutes with the Chissel and I've solved the safety problem. I'll post a range report tomorrow. :eek:
 
CorBon LISTS their 115-gr +P load at about 1350 fps (I'm about 95% certain that's what is printed on the box), but the reports I have seen on it (not verified by myself and a chrono) had it averaging slightly over 1400 fps.

I'd say that any load pushing a 115-gr bullet past 1200 fps is probably slightly above normal pressures.
 
The older VV manuals show 1500fps with the 115s and 1700fps with the 88s and well over 1300fps with 125s, don't try this with the SIG but they work well in the H&Ks, Glocks and Beretta along with CZs..Good Shooting! henry
 
SAAMI limits the 9mm to 35K, +P to 38.5K. There is no official SAAMI designation for anything over that or +P+. The European CIP stds I can't recall, but some NATO ammo gets as high as 42K.

US 9mm Cartridge, Ball, M882 has a max pressure of 36,250 psi IIRC, about SAAMI +P. The US 9mm Cartridge, Ball (smg ammo) has a max pressure of 43K and is not intended for the M9 or any other pistol. Win/Fed NATO has a max of 38.5, does about 1190 from my BHP. I have fired foreign ammo made to NATO specs that was much slower too. The NATO headstamp (cross in a circle) is more a quality control quarantee on components and manufacturing processes than a specific velocity/pressure level.

Some strange stuff for ya:

Rem 115 std 1200
Rem 115 +P 1260
Rem 115 +P+ 1270
Fed 115 1190
Fed 115 +P+ 1265
Fed 124 HS 1120
Fed 124 HS +P+ 1210
Speer 124 GD 1155
Speer 124 +P GD 1260
Triton 115 +P 1303
CorBon 115 +P 1316

All from a BHP

Pressure depends on components used. A higher pressure load might not always be faster than a lower pressure load using different stuff.

There can be a wide variation from lot to lot and gun to gun too.

The 124 +P Rem GS did 1145 from my G26, 1140 from a another guy's Beretta 92! My Beretta 92 shot the CB 115 +P at 1330, a friends G17 at 1300.

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[This message has been edited by BrokenArrow (edited October 01, 2000).]
 
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