What's in the different Powders?

S

Shadi Khalil

New member
While at a gun store the other day buying ammo, my girlfirend asked; "what makes that little box of ammo, with half the rounds but twice the price, any better than the ones from walmart?" All I could really tell her was that one was better than the other, in so many words. We both know one has more pop and flash and fanicer looking bullets casings but what about the powders? Are all ammo makers using the same kind of powders? Is corbon and the like just using more powder than Winchester white or Blazer etc..? Or, is there infact better powders that are more expensive and actually do preform better?

The ammo I generally use is:

Corbon 115 +P
Gold Dot 115
Winchester Ranger +P+
Federal HST 147
WWB
Blazer Brass


Thanks,


S.T
 
Certain powders are designed to burn faster or slower than others.

Although the powder is one aspect of cartridge production, the main difference in cheap and costly ammo is in the bullet. High quality hollow-point bullets will expand more predictably and reliably than the others. There's also an ideal "window" of penetration.

With the exception of ridiculously "hyped" ammo like Extreme Shock, you generally get what you pay for with defense ammunition.
 
+1. It's NOT the powder that influences the cost difference; it's the bullet plus the marketing hype.
 
Gold dots are pretty good, but you may want to try Blackhill's ammo.


Production ammo sucks no matter who makes it lack of quality control. You just can't make 10,000 rounds an hour and keep the quality in. Try reloading your own, you will be suprised on how GOOD your rounds are comparied to factory. Almost all of my rifles and most of my handguns have never seen a factory load and never will.


Jim
 
Production ammo sucks no matter who makes it lack of quality control. You just can't make 10,000 rounds an hour and keep the quality in
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Ahem. I would basically disagree with this statement, and I am an avid reloader.
The most popular and reputable ammo manufacturers sell excellent quality centerfire ammunition. Sure, we reloaders can better tailor loads to our individual firearms, and more easily choose different bullets, but the non-reloader should have no fear of buying the store bought stuff. jd
 
Agree with above - the bullet is what you're paying for in premium defense ammo.

Some of these are made with more expensive materials, or more expensive manufacturing methods.

Also, premium defense ammo has a lot of engineering and testing time per round sold. For the ammo company, if they're making FMJ it's already pretty much figured out - very little R&D or testing goes in to that. You make a couple-few jillion rounds with almost no R&D or testing costs = low price.

If you're trying to come up with the latest greatest thing in defense ammo - better somehow than what's already out there - you're going to have to try a lot of different things and test them, not all of which will work. You will have to test the ammo under different conditions and test performance on different kinds of targets, probably simulating different kinds of barriers too. Then you have to go out and advertise to make sure everyone knows your Latest is the Greatest. Result: lots of R&D costs, lots of marketing costs, and not that much volume of ammo sold = higher price.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys,

I fully understand/understood the bullet part, but like the bullets, are there different powders that are more expensive than others?
 
"...are there different powders that are more expensive than others?"

Yes, but...the difference in a single round would be insignificant. Mulitiply that tiny difference by 50 for a box and it's still insignificant. The factories use the right powders, why would they not? They all want repeat customers you know.

Costs are more effectively cut with less expensive cases and bullets.
 
It sure seems like some of the cheap factory ammo really stinks up the range. I wonder why they would use that kind of powder if its not saving money?
 
An "insignificant" cost per round or per box becomes quite significant when talking volumes of production. Let's say one powder costs a tenth of a cent less per round. That's a nickel per box of 50; quite insignificant. Most of us wouldn't even begin to worry about an extra nickel on a box. Now, for a case of 1000 rounds, that's one dollar- still not a huge deal. On a million rounds made and sold, that's a thousand dollars. Beginning to matter a bit- not much, but a bit. If you make cheap practice ammo, you might be churning it out by the hundreds of millions per year. Now you're into five figures and counting, and that's enough to matter.
 
I also like some factory JHP's for the nickel plated cases. As a reloader, I prefer brass, so I don't buy nickel plated cases in bulk, but I really think that nickel plated cases are ideal in instances where they will sit in a cylinder or a mag for a long time before rotation. Also one tends to see sealed primers on premium factory SD ammo.

Also, the only useful Mas Ayoob courtroom advice he has ever spouted is that of using factory ammo in an SD gun. I like being able to say, if I ever have to, that I mostly use the same brand as the local LEO's use.
 
Ammunition manufacturers routinely use non-canister powders to reduce the cost.
These powders have more variation than the canister grade powders typically used for reloading.

The load must be worked up for each batch of the powder, but the batches are very large so the cost is amortized.
 
jdscholer, I have SEEN rounds loaded with bullets pushed back into the case and primers inserted backwards from major manufacturers. The idea that factory ammo is perfect is every way tells me you haven't handled much factory stuff.
 
I have SEEN rounds loaded with bullets pushed back into the case and primers inserted backwards from major manufacturers. .
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I've seen some pretty shoddy stuff myself. Just last week I bought a box for Cor-bon that has some sort of grey powder packed in to the bullets. I was able to get it out but still took them back for an exchange. I have had a box of Gold dot with a round that the bullet came right off of when I pulled it out the box. Same thing with various .22 rounds...
 
An "insignificant" cost per round or per box becomes quite significant when talking volumes of production. Let's say one powder costs a tenth of a cent less per round. That's a nickel per box of 50; quite insignificant. Most of us wouldn't even begin to worry about an extra nickel on a box. Now, for a case of 1000 rounds, that's one dollar- still not a huge deal. On a million rounds made and sold, that's a thousand dollars. Beginning to matter a bit- not much, but a bit. If you make cheap practice ammo, you might be churning it out by the hundreds of millions per year. Now you're into five figures and counting, and that's enough to matter.
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Absolutely true for cheap practice ammo. But not so much for premium self defense ammo.
 
If we are going to talk about cost, the volume of powder per load can be a factor for the manufacturer.

A quick look at any reloading manual will find an array of powder measurements/weights, for the same bullet weight, for different powders made by the same manufacturer.(These powders are approximately/close to the same cost per pound.)

However, one can choose one load with one powder by a manufacturer maybe 4.6 grains while another powder by the same manufacturer may call for 7.5 grains; both for recommended starting loads. (This is a real example, Hodgdon 10mm 200 grain HDY FMJ first powder HP-38 second powder HS-6 / both powders cost me the exact same price per pound.)

Now as a reloader I may prefer one over the other; however it will cost me 63% more for the higher weight loading; in this example using 7.5 grains of HS-6 for the same manufacturer specified starting loads.

You can bet that the ammo manufacturers take this into consideration. While they may not be using Hodgdon's HP-38 or HS-6, they would notice a 63% increase or savings in powder cost to produce their product.
 
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