What's "good" off hand shooting

B

Blue Duck357

New member
I've been shooting for over twenty years now, so this may seem like an odd question, but what is a good offhand group with an accurate rifle at 100 yards?

I'd always been taught to take a rest when possible and I usually pratice from prone, sitting etc. but I do occasionally practice from standing off hand but frankly not enough, just becuase it's so sad to see those nice small groups open up to pie plate size or worse at 100 yards.

In short, prone, sitting, or with a rest standing I feel I'm right in there with most good shots but standing unsuported I'm getting a big inferiority complex. I've had good day's where I could keep everthing in 4 or 5 inches off hand at 100 but frankly I've also had days when keeping anything inside 12" is hard, so is anyone elso willing to fess up to not shooting 2 inch groups off hand?

Thanks, Blue Duck
 
Art always says, beer cans at 100 yards for offhand shooting. I won't argue with that.

I think there are times for punching paper, but more time should be spent shooting at real 3-D objects.
 
I dunno about group size; I've never done that. I do know that a target shooter with proper use of a sling can achieve startlingly good results from the offhand position. But, I last shot in that manner in basic training with a Garand, in 1954.

I think as a walking hunter. From the offhand position, I am better off if I shoot much as in IPSC/IDPA: "Front sight, Bang!" For my rifle, then, it's "Crosshairs, Bang!" I try to shoot as in shotgunning; I don't try to hold a steady aim. I just can't do that very well; never have been able to. Using my carry-sling as a hasty sling helps, but not all that much, really. But that's just me.

FWIW, my Canjar trigger is adjusted to two pounds, plus I installed a trigger shoe...

I'll definitely use a rest, any chance I get...

Hope this BS is helpful,

Art
 
Since I shoot NRA High Power I'll get my feet wet with this one. The SR-C target has a ten ring of approx. 7 inches. This is shot at 200 yards offhand. If you can keep 10 rounds within the 10 ring, this is considered good shooting and will result in a score of 100. I practice offhand all year round and have cleaned the 200 yard offhand stage many times. I have also shot some very poor scores on this stage. I do most practice at our indoor range shooting at 50 feet with a rimfire. If I can keep a full box (50) rounds inside of 1 inch, I had a decent practice session. If you want to become a good offhand shooter you must practice, practice, practice, and when you think you got it figured out, go practice some more. 2 to 3 inch groups at 100 yards are very do-able if you practice. Did I mention that you should practice! Well,You get the point!
 
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but...I believe BlueDuck357 is refering to standing, off-hand, NO SLING, no glove, no heavy shooting jacket, etc.-in other words, what kind of group can you shoot UNSUPPORTED with your deer rifle/elk rifle, etc. IF this is what he was refering to, the best I've seen- from a non-competition shooter-was about four-to-five-inch groups at 100 yards...on demand...every time he shoots...this guy takes his hunting SERIOUSLY, and practices religiously with his rifle, his bow AND his XP100...don't even want to tell you what he can do with the XP...I don't believe it myself!!! On a good day, I can ALMOST keep up with him...when I have a bad day, he literally "shoots rings around" my offhand grouping ability!!! Personally, if I keep all my shots on a six-inch paper plate at 100 yards, I'm ecstatic...all of 'em on a nine-inch plate, I'm content...almost. If I can't keep 'em all on the nine-incher, I mutter to myself for DAYS afterward...usually end up doing some serious dry-fire practice after a session like that!!!...mikey357
 
Thats exactly what I was refering too Mike. Thanks for making me feel a little better, I thought surely all these guys can't be shooting 1 1/2" off hand with their guns!
Yeah I know there are mutants who can shoot unsupported and the only wiggle is watching thier cross hairs rise and fall with thier heartbeats (I wish I was one of them).

But your absolutly right I was wondering what was considered good for a decent shot with his standard deer rifle standing with no support.

Thanks, Blue Duck
 
Art;

You made my day. Damn, you're even older than I am because I first qualified on a Garand in 1958 - unless you were only 14 when you did it. I agree with your philosophy on the "off hand" shooting - not if I can find something to lean on - a tree, the ground, a fence post, etc.

But as for Blue's original question, I'd guess that mikey's my kind of shooter - keep 'em on the plate at 100 yards and I'm happy as a pig in mud. ;)
 
I often metion praticing off hand pratice to others and I often get the feed back that they always take a rest so why practice off hand.Well I always end a shooting secession with a little off hand practice.I guarantee you it will help your field shooting under all conditions.When you practice off hand you will learn what you can do with your rifle not just what your rifle can do off a rest.Practice,Practice,Practice your groups will shrink if you keep it up.
 
Blue Duck: Your not alone, by a long shot. I wish I could shoot 2" groops offhand that would make my day and then some. I'm not sure who claims to shoot 2" groups OH but I would pay to see it. I started shooting highpower this year and the best score to date is a 186/200(duno group size but it's anything but small)for 20 shots(200 yards), scores dropped since that cause my head gets in the way. Shooting more air rifle in the basement this winter should help me get some of those points back.

Brian
 
Hey, Blue Duck!

The deal is not in the "holding steady" when shooting offhand and without a sling.

The deal is in having the sights/crosshairs coming on to the target, and pulling/squeezing/pressing (pick your own term) the trigger in a coordinated fashion--and the gun goes off just as the sights bear. You're actually signalling your trigger finger a smidgen of time *ahead* of the sight picture.

I've watched my father wobble and bobble about with his pet Springfield. The muzzle visibly wavers around. But the gun goes off and there's a hole in the deer's white spot--at 200, 250 yards. I've watched him. There are four witnesses to his calling a neck shot at well over 400 yards. Standing, offhand, no sling, and a hard Norther blowing. He said the first shot, a miss, gave him the windage; the second shot broke the deer's neck.

It's a coordination that can only come from lots of shooting. That's why having a .22 rimfire of nearly the same size, weight and trigger-pull quality as your hunting rifle is a Good Thing. You can shoot the cheapest thousands of rounds you'll ever be able to.

The "human benchrest" type of fella is rare as hen's teeth, and I ain't him. I ain't as good as my father, either, but I keep on practicing.

Just stay with it, in a thought-out fashion. You'll get there. Never give up.

Art
 
"Trust your wobble" yeah I know what you mean but my wobble off hand is the size of Kansas (well not really, but at least Rhode Island). I'll practice more, and I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who's skimped practicing this just because it is so frustrating. I appreciate all the suggestions and will work on it some more.

Thnaks, Blue Duck
 
BlueDuck357:

Offhand inconsistencies are exaserbated by heavy rifles. How much does your rifle weigh?

I recently attended a beginner rifle class. Standing offhand at 100 yards, the best group was pie plate size from a novice shooter using a 20" heavy barrel Bushmaster iron sights weighing about 8 lbs. The worst group (barely hitting paper) was shot by another novice shooter using a scoped SR9T (HK91 with heavy barrel, scope, bipod, target grip, PSG-1 trigger group, etc.) It wieghed about 18 lbs. When shooting prone, the groups for the SR9T went into the 10 ring.
 
Don't have a book handy to give you the exact weight, but my main deer rifle is a synthetic stocked Remington model 700 ADL in 30-06 with a 3x9 Leupold. Not a light weight by any stretch.

Nor do I think it's a great stock design (or maybe just fit for me) for off hand shooting. Spent almost all Sunday afternoon working on this, but brought my M1 Carbine and Marlin Ranger along to break up the monotany. Found those two rifles even though less accurate were much easier for me to get good groups with off hand. Both are in fact significantly lighter.

I decided 9 of 10 in a 3" target would be my goal and started at only 30 yards, moved back ten yards when I had done it. I worked out to 60 but then had to drop back to 50 by the end of the session and when I lost that I decided I mustbe getting tired and packed it up for the day.

I'll keep working on it, Thanks

Blue Duck
 
Sounds like most people here are in agreement. Offhand shooting does make for larger groups.

I learned shooting in the Marines and usually qualified expert by the time I got out. On a good day, I can repeatedly shoot a four inch group at one hundred yards offhand. This with a rifle that runs under an inch at that distance from a benchrest.

Now, good days being few and far between, I probably average around an eight incher. If I practiced more, I'm sure the groups would come back down, but unfortunately range time is also few and far between these days.

I have a lot of respect for Col. Cooper, but I think "standing up and shooting from your hind legs like a man" is something to be avoided at all costs.

Shooting prone and making the earth your benchrest is so much more accurate that I just don't spend a lot of time shooting from the offhand position.

Hope this helps.
 
Use of a sling?

Blue Duck, you mentioned that your wobble was "the size of KS/RI". Using a sling properly (to brace your forward arm) should reduce the wobbles significantly. It gives you a "triangle" on the front of the rifle. Doesn't eliminate wobbles, but slows/reduces them, so you can use the method Art describes more effectively.

Not sure whether the use of a sling meets your definition of offhand for target shooting, but if you're in the field shooting at 100 yds, it doesn't take more than 1 second to wrap the sling around your arm as you raise your rifle. Using a sling is not as good as using a rest, but its better than just holding your rifle unsupported. Try it.
 
Mikey357,
I hunt with a sling on my rifle so I think it's perfectly fair to practice my off-hand shooting with one.

8200 rpm,
I shoot a lot better off-hand with a heavier rifle- for the first few shots. After that the weight of the rifle takes it's toll on group size. Remember, a good first shot when hunting is all you usually need.
 
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