whats considered accurate?

B

beex215

New member
ive been testing cast reloads and i cant seem to get any better then 2.5 inch groups at only 20 feet. at 40 feet they open up to about 5.5 inches. i have not been shooting factory or jacketed in quite some time, so i dont really have a base line control. im still in testing and still have many things to try out but what do you consider as accurate?

im talking about pistols. i mainly shoot pistols. p95 9mm and m&p 40.
 
You should bench rest the gun ---- to evaluate your ammo ....vs your own shooting ability.

Shooting off-hand....if I can put together a solid 1" group ( cover it with a quarter ) ....for 6 shots of slow fire...nice and deliberate...at 21 feet ...that's as good as I can shoot ...with a well tuned gun, with a quality trigger that breaks like glass, a good match grade barrel ....in a gun like one of my 1911's or a good single action revoler / or shooting a double action revolver in single action ( with my jacketed reloads ).

Some days I can cover that 6 shot group with a quarter ...some days I need a 50 cent piece...some days I need a silver dollar...( or a washer or whatever, you get my point ).

But the first thing to do ...is what is the gun capable of - in terms of a 6 shot group ...from a bench rest ( many better guns will shoot a sub 1" group at 25 yards...) ....some guns, like Wilson Combat 1911's can come with a 1" guarantee at 25 yds.....but not in my hands, and my old eyes, at 21 or 25 or 30 feet....somedays I can do it at 21 feet, somedays I can do it at 25 feet...most days at 30 Ft...I can't do it / even though the gun can !

I'd suggest you check it with a FMJ RN bullet ....and then some of your cast bullets....and see if there is any variation.
 
You should bench rest the gun ---- to evaluate your ammo ....vs your own shooting ability.
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+1.

An accurate gun with ammo it likes will shoot an inch or better at 25 yards. Your P95 and M&P may not be capable of that kind of accuracy, though.

An accurate shooter with an accurate gun will shoot (unsupported) 4" or better at 25 yards.

JMHO, of course. YMMV.
 
Depends on the purpose

Are you loading for a competition target pistol, a hunting pistol or a defensive pistol?

A bullseye competition gun should be capable of grouping within two inches or so at 50 yards. (That's the approximate size of the X ring on the 50 yard target.)

A hunting pistol should keep all it's shots in the heart and lungs area of the game animal in question at the range you expect to kill that type of game animal.

My criteria for a defense pistol is making head shots at 25 yards. (You are free to select a different standard.)

There are three questions to resolve in all this.
Can the gun shoot that well with any ammunition?
Can my ammunition shoot that well?
Can I shoot that well?

As mentioned, you need to use a 'rest' of some sort to testing accuracy. It need not be an expensive and elaborate device, it can be a set of sand bags or simple wooden device which holds the pistol in the same manner repeatedly.

Also, when testing, shoot 'groups' only. How close together are all the rounds from a particular string. Don't worry about how close or far the group is from the sights; that can be changed later. Ideally, you want a group that is perfectly round and very tightly packed. Groups which are elongated in any axis indicate a problem with the gun, the ammunition or one's shooting.
 
Handguns are difficult to shoot well! I doubt I would brag about a 5" group, but they happen all the time at 25 yds. Consider what that 25 yd 5" group would look like at 50 and 100 yds with hunting handguns.
 
If you take yourself the gun, weather and everything else out of the picture so that it’s just your hand loads, there is so much that can affect accuracy that the list would be endless.
Personally I think bench resting the gun as Big JimP said is the best idea. If you see an improvement than depending on the amount of improvement you know where the fault is.
This is not to fault your shooting, I know that even though I shoot thousands of rounds each year, what I am capable of now, has become much worse that it was 30 years ago and its mostly the eyesight.
Since we don’t know your capability it’s hard to say how good 2.5 inches at 20 feet is. What are your stings like? Shot gun pattern or vertical or horizontal strings. That can say a lot a possible problem.
I know that with a similar gun that I picked up this year, 9mm new in the box S&W 3906, I would be very happy with 2.5 inches at 20 feet.
But at the same time I have a Beretta storm carbine in 9mm that off a bench will hold 5 inches at 100 yards with the same handloads, which is meaningless for the discussion.
Last, I would have someone else shoot the gun with your rounds. Some one that you know is as good as or better than you are.
 
Well, since I hope your not shooting cast bullets in bullseye competition, and since most gun fights happen up close like 7 yards and under, then a 2.5 inch group should be sufficient at 20 feet shouldn't it? At least that is my thinking I am satisfied with a 2 inch or so group out of my carry pistol at 20 or so feet. A 2.5 inch group could easily fit within the 5x range on a police silhouette target.
 
This is a Smith and Wesson factory range target. If the pistol shoots within the circle it is considered acceptable.

This was shot off hand, so that is pretty good in my book.

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Well, since I hope your not shooting cast bullets in bullseye competition…..
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Bullseye, as in Conventional Pistol? Don’t 99.9% of Bullseye shooters use cast bullets? Save for hardball matches, all I’ve used and ever seen anyone use is lead cast bullets.
 
Casting your own bullets often brings up consistency problems. So double check your "boolits". Check your boolit diameter against your barrel, there can be enough variation to throw accuracy off.

You probably know to work your loads up from 10/15% under max on up in .0 increments.
I've had good accuracy with slow loads in both .45acp and .45colt.

It's possible to work off hand for determining loads. But it takes a lot of loads over time to figure out what's the load and what's the shooter's contribution.

Oh and check your barrel for lead fouling.
 
Bullseye, as in Conventional Pistol? Don’t 99.9% of Bullseye shooters use cast bullets?
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Actually, no not in my area. I am not saying it is like this everywhere, shoot probably not even out of here most likely, but here the local yahoos use competition ammo if they can afford it. That is, copper jacketed bottail hollow point. Even the guys who reload don't use cast lead. But like I said, probably different everywhere else. Whatever works I guess.
 
Shooting 15 rounds - for a group --- is way too many rounds. It takes way more concentration ....than most guys can muster to shoot that many rounds and keep them in a 1" group.

I'd suggest you back it off to 6 rounds....evaluate/measure the group ...

Keep a log ....shoot the 6 shot group at the start of your range session. Then run your tactical drills or whatever you're working on ....at the end of your 1 hour or 2 hours or whatever you're doing at the range.... shoot and measure and log a 2nd 6 shot group ....over 10 sessions or so, you can see how you're doing.

But at this point you still have 2 issues....accuracy and consistency of your ammo ....and your own shooting ability. You need to bench rest that gun ..and evaluate your ammo first. At 20 Ft - that ammo from a bench rest has to be no bigger than a 1" group out of that gun ...if it isn't / then you need to re-evaluate your casting and loading processes. I'd evaluate your cast rounds ...against some FMJ reloads ...(same grain if possible )..../ if the FMJ rounds can give you a bench rest group of 1" or less....then you have to decide if you still want to cast bullets or not ...and can you live with the variation it gives you in that gun.

Once you get your ammo dialed in ....then you can see what you can do ( maybe what your seeing is your ammo / maybe not ).
 
Tactical Accuracy .....under the pressure of drawing a gun from a holster and putting 2 or 3 shots on a target ...in say under 3 sec ...is a whole different thing.

Tactical Accuracy ....draw a triangle on a silhouette.....a line between the nipples...and a line from each nipple to the belly button. That's a pretty big triangle...and even if you cut that area in half ( upper and lower half ) ...a shot inside that upper area of the triangle ...with a fast time / is Tactically an Accurate shot. 3" left or 3" Right ...is irrelevent.

In fact if your 3 shot groups are too tight ( say under 3" accross ) ...then you're shooting too slowly ...and you should probably speed up ! In Tactical Drills....accuracy outside of that area...is not good .....but any shot inside that Tactical Area...is a 10.

Bulls-Eye shooting is a very different discipline !
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Now challenging yourself ...and training tactically ...with some 4" or 5" circles ....and trying to get all shots in that circle ...(arms at your sides, draw - and fire 1 shot / maybe 2 shot groups ) as timer sounds.....I might start that drill at 9 Ft ....then go to 12 Ft, and 15 Ft ...and 21 FT...( and my goal for a double tap on target ( 100% hits ) ...drawing might be under 2 sec at 9 Ft, 3 sec at 15 and 21 Ft....and for every miss, maybe I put $ 0.25 in a kitty or something ....shoot for something / push yourself a little. Maybe you and your shooting buddies ...take the "Kitty money" and go to breakfast every few months ...

But don't confuse a 15 shot string ...for accuracy / with a 6 shot string for accuracy ....with Tactical Drills. They're all very different things - in my view.
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Today as an example ....going to range...I have a 1911 5" gun in 9mm for some Tactical Drills..( and most of what I'll do will be from 9 Ft - 21 Ft )...and a single action revolver ( 4 3/4" barrel in .357 mag ) for some accuracy drills - and most of my drills there will be at 50 - 75 Ft. 2 very different weapons - 2 very different disciplines ( even with my old eyes / both drills are valuable ) ...but most of all, they're Fun !
 
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