Whats a .44WCF or .44-40?

R

Ramcharger

New member
Figures. I finally find a Single action Cimmiron I like. at a good price. ( $250.)
But Its a 44WCF. And A New Dakota in .44-40.
I dunno. I never even seen a 44 WCF but I do like that Cimmiron.
Does it use the same bullets as a .44 special/magnum for reloading.
I dunno it seems kinda odd ball a caliber...
BTW they had a NEW DAKOTA in .45 Colt also but that was $335.
Should I just pony up the extra $85. for the .45 Dakota. Just I read the Cimmerons were better quality than the EMF Dakotas.
 
.44 Winchester Centerfire of 1873; Colt picked it up for revolvers around 1878. Marlin & Colt called it .44-40 (.44 caliber, 40 grains of black powder) so they didn't have to put the competition's name on their guns but Merwin & Hulbert were proud of it and marked their revolvers ".44 Winchester 1873."
Standard bullet is 200 gr .427" instead of .44 Magnum's 240 gr. .429".
Cases are slightly bottlenecked and so must be reloaded with a steel sizing die, no carbide available.
 
The .44WCF (Wincherster CenterFire) and the .44-40 is the same cartridge. It originated in the blackpowder days. The case is bottlenecked, though not alot so it's not readily seen in pictures. The bullet used is .427", but some use the same .429" bullet used in the .44 spl and magnum (I don't recommend it). Because of the bottleneck you won't find carbide sizing dies and will have to lube the cases for resizing.
The .44-40 (how most people know it by) is not an oddball. It's the cartridge of choice in the rifle that won the west, the 1873 Winchester. The '73 Winchester was never chambered in .45 Colt. Colt later chambered the SAA in .44-40 to be a companion to the '73 Winchester.
Spend a little time reading of the cartridges of that period as you are looking at the guns. You will see the .38-40, .32-20, and many many others that cowboy action shooting today is ressurecting from the past.
 
A nice round with a lot of history. Cases are thinner than .44 Special/.44 Mag or .45 Colt fare, so along with the cautions/anomalies on reloading others have already mentioned is to be watchful of split cases. If reloaded by someone who knows what they're doing, shouldn't be a problem however.

The .44 WCF is most famous in the TV/movie world for the Lucas McCain character (Chuck Connors) of the Rifleman, whose loop lever'd--which was strictly a Hollywood thing--rapid fire Win 92 in .44-40 was the real star. If you look around, some of the guns you mention come (every now and then) with dual cylinder options, with the "base" caliber (bore dia.) being the .44 Sp. Shooting the .44-40 out of these may be slightly less accurate because of the aforementioned .002 difference in the bore diameter--for recreation shooting not enough to count.
 
This is JMO! But I think you would be better off going with a Ruger. Rugers are built like tanks and will last a life time. I know you can get Rugers in 45 Colt and 44-40 but I don't know about the 44 WCF.

I would love to get a Colt but! They want some serious money for them even newer 3rd gen Colts.
 
Avoid EMF Dakota models by Armi San Marcos. They are poor quality. The alloy gripframe will lose the finish quickly. Some just polish theirs anyway. A EMF Dakota should run about #285.00 or less. That auction price is high. A Cimmaron is most likely a Uberti. The Ubertis are fine. You can save money by buying a Uberti from Stoeger. Cimmaron marks Ubertis up significantly. Cimmarons have higher levels of external finish according to some. I believe it is more due to the extra stamping/rollmarking on Cimmaron Cotls.
 
44-40 compared to ,45 Colt
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The .44-40 and the .45 LC in certain "equivalent" loads are so close as to be inconsequential. Seems the .45 can be "hotted" up a bit more successfully and its stronger case is an advantage in that aspect as well as general re-loading advantages. It is very odd how the whole Winchester vs Colt "thing" played out in the late 1800s, with Colt "having" to adopt the .44-40 for the SAA to be a companion for the the Winchester (then) 1873 model and later 1892 model; but Winchester choosing not to "return the favor" re .45 loading for its rifles/carbines. Also funny how both .45 and .44-40 rounds are "73" rounds, although as mentioned Colt did not make its SAAs in the .44 until 5 years later. I suspect that the non-bottle-necked design of the .45 may have had something (if not all) to do with Winchester's decision, but given the success of the modern Rossi 92s (and Uberti Win 73s) in .45, you wonder. Maybe modern folk are the only ones who were able to figure out the .45 would work also (you have to believe Winchester must've at least secretly chambered some of their rifles in .45 in their "test lab" to check it out.
 
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A little more on the 44WCF or .44-40. The case is actually a little longer than the .44 magnum. Some old time reloading guides have some pretty stiff loads for the old cartridge, even significantly higher than .44magnum. I never tried any of them (and won't) but apparently in the old days, there was different loading data for the rifle and the pistol with today's ammo being all pistol loads. Some .44-40 handguns have the cylinder sized for the .427 bullet (a .429 bullet will not chamber in mine) but the barrel diameter for the .429. Like the man says above, not a significant problem for recreational shooting. Quantrill
 
Yes Quantrill, I believe (at least historically) ammo manufacturers have been wary to have rifle loads out there that might make their way especially into weaker (than rifle) SAAs and so play it safe.
 
The .44 WCF is most famous in the TV/movie world for the Lucas McCain character (Chuck Connors) of the Rifleman, whose loop lever'd--which was strictly a Hollywood thing--rapid fire Win 92 in .44-40 was the real star.
Click to expand...
Long before Lucas McCain was rapid firing his large loop Model 92 on TV John Wayne had already made the large loop Win 92 famous in the movies. Back in the late 1930s The Duke first used a 92' Winchester modified with the large loop and continued to use one thru out his career. His personal choice of caliber was also the .44-40 in both the Winchesters and his Colts.
 
Majic, you've got it absolutely right, but I think Lucas was the first to make a point about the caliber itself...he'd often go into the general store and say "Howdy, get me a box of .44s" or ".44-40" and they'd show the ammo box on the shelf! I think Wayne and Connors were the only ones that showed a particular preference for firearm (others just shot what they were given), and of course during the periods their films/shows were depicting the '92 didn't even exist--they would've been 73's!
 
Gak, not only were the 73's were neglected, but 92's were used when they really should have been the Henry's before the 73's.
There are many movies depicting the time frame of a few years after the Civil War with the actors having 92 Winchesters and Colt SAA sidearms.
Hollywood will tell you the West was Won by the 73 Winchester, but they seldom show it.
 
The 45 Long Colt used a baloon head. A 73 could not be chambered for these as the cartridge heads would not eject or the heads would simply be ripped. The straightwall cases are spitters of hot gases due to poor sealing. Stronger caseheads, bottlenecks and better gas sealing because of same is why - cartridges worked in the day. 25-20, 32-20, 32-40, 38-40, 38-55, 44-40, 45-, and 56- cartridges simply worked and transitioned to smokeless era well. The 45 Long Colt was not around until CAS demands brought it into demand. John Waynes cartridge of choice was the 38-40.
 
"I never tried any of them (and won't) but apparently in the old days, there was different loading data for the rifle and the pistol with today's ammo being all pistol loads."

and

"Yes Quantrill, I believe (at least historically) ammo manufacturers have been wary to have rifle loads out there that might make their way especially into weaker (than rifle) SAAs and so play it safe."

When the 1886 and 1892 rifles came out, Winchester began loading a line of cartridges titled "High Speed." Not surprisingly, these had one heck of a lot more oomph (pressure and velocity) behind them and were designed to take advantage of the stronger 1886 and 1892 actions (courtesty of the design genius of John Browning).

High Speed ammo was made in .32-20, .38-40, .44-40, and .45-70.

Now, I'm certain that someone can tell me the potential problem with this...

Anyone? Anyone? Behuler?

Yep, there were, at the same time, a LOT of Winchester 1873s and Colt 1873s in circulation in .32-20, .38-40, and .44-40, while there were tons of Springfield trapdoors in .45-70.

The boxes were clearly marked that these rounds were for use in 1886/92 rifles only, NOT in 1873s, Trapdoors, or any handguns at all, but people back then had the same problem that they do now.

They're fricking morons who won't read the box.

A lot of fine old rifles and revolvers were lost this way.

The only difference, then vs. now?

Back then, if someone was stupid enough to do this, they lamented the loss of a gun, took the jibing from their friends, and got another gun.

These days they sue.
 
The first appearance of a bow-lever Winchester rifle was, I believe, in Stagecoach, John Wayne's 1932 breakthrough hit.

Johnny Ringo needed a gimick, and someone from the prop department had the bright idea that Wayne's character could cock it by spinning it, so a bow was fitted to the rifle, and given to Wayne to practice with.

Notice I said rifle. That's important.

The first time Wayne tried to spin cock the rifle, the barrel came flying back round, caught him in the jaw, and knocked him cold.

Not long after that, Johnny Ringo was sporting a bow-lever CARBINE.

And, IIRC, in that movie he was sporting a .32-40...
 
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