Just happened upon a parking lot altercation this evening. As a new AZ resident I have been CC'ing for two weeks. I drive up to a diner next to a Chili's here in Phoenix. Saw kids standing at rear of a Lincoln Navigator that looks like it stopped while driving from parking spot and thought it was a teen car fire drill. I circled Chili's parking lot and decided I didn't want to leave my gun in the car (am not permitted yet) so I drive back about 50 yards to the Diner. As I pull up I get a better look at the Navigator that hasn't moved and see an older white male lying on the ground and on his side. I immediately think heart attack. I quickly park and get out. I see a white male (~30's YWM) standing over another white male (~late 50's OFWG) and appears to be holding down the OFWG on the ground. Walking up I hear YWM instructing OFWG to not get up until cops get there. OFWG repeatedly asks what the YWM was doing and to let him up. Upon walking up, I noticed a younger white female (~30's YWF), presumed wife of YWM, is on phone w/911 and two teen girls. I did not notice two teen males also standing nearby. YWF is telling 911 that OFWG walked out of diner being loud and upset, beating on parking lot cars(one of which belonged to one of the teen girls), got into his Navigator and backed up abruptly and hit flag pole. YWM was upset and fearing for daughter and wife's safety in the parking lot. I don't know how the OFWG was stopped or came to be out of the car, but that clearly happened prior to my first seeing the parked Navigator. Either way the YWM put the OFWG on the ground. I hear the YWF giving 911 the license plate, I make mental note of the same. Wife instructs husband to let OFWG go and of course older male rabbits driving off quickly, but not before making veiled threat that sounded like the YWM was lucky he didn't get shot. Navigator drives off and seems disoriented and exits parking lot just as, a Phoenix black and white rolls up.
What would you do if you rolled up and saw YWM holding down an OFWG against his will that was protesting to get up? I saw the damage to flag pole only after the Navigator drove off. The YWM appeared in good physical shape. OFWG was comparable in stature, but you never know of what they're capable.
As I walked up and realized this wasn't a medical emergency, I recalled from my CCW class three weeks ago the importance of not jumping to conclusions. I didn't feel the older male's life was being threatened. So I decided to be a good witness get the plates and wait to see if cops had questions for me, which they didn't.
If it had been an out and out fight, I honestly would not have been prepared unless deadly force was present and a threat to my safety and others. Even then, how to know who is a bad guy? BTW, the YWM had one sleeve tat on his right arm, bald/shaved head and looked like he could handle himself, older guy was OFWG in khaki shorts, blue/black polo and wearing a baseball cap. My adrenaline didn't kick in which surprised me a little, but I think its because I maintained some distance, didn't immediately involve myself, and was not witnessing an escalating physical fight. I've been in bars/festivals when poop hits the fan and the adrenaline dumps, this was not like that.
Any lessons You would suggest? With any luck, this will be the closest to an altercation or need to consider whether to use lethal force I ever see. I feel better to know I was prepared to defend myself if the situation was worse/escalating. In the moment I forgot I had my flash light on me, but did not have my Cold Steel Recon folder. Still new to CC and lots on which to train.
I'm editing this from home (submitted from iPhone at Chili's bar) and thinking, how did I not see those two younger male teens? What if the OFWG got up, walked to his Navigator and pulled out a gun? BTW, the teens would have been behind the OFWG and in my line of fire, but again, I didn't notice them at the moment. I didn't have my flash light (Ultrafire 500lums) readied. I also didn't have my second magazine on me either. I also realize I kept my back to a restaurant and wasn't aware if anyone else was party to OFWG.
Any more experienced folks that can help question what I did or didn't do, please jump in. Again new to all of this and have planned to take defensive pistol classes beyond my first fundamentals class.
What would you do if you rolled up and saw YWM holding down an OFWG against his will that was protesting to get up? I saw the damage to flag pole only after the Navigator drove off. The YWM appeared in good physical shape. OFWG was comparable in stature, but you never know of what they're capable.
As I walked up and realized this wasn't a medical emergency, I recalled from my CCW class three weeks ago the importance of not jumping to conclusions. I didn't feel the older male's life was being threatened. So I decided to be a good witness get the plates and wait to see if cops had questions for me, which they didn't.
If it had been an out and out fight, I honestly would not have been prepared unless deadly force was present and a threat to my safety and others. Even then, how to know who is a bad guy? BTW, the YWM had one sleeve tat on his right arm, bald/shaved head and looked like he could handle himself, older guy was OFWG in khaki shorts, blue/black polo and wearing a baseball cap. My adrenaline didn't kick in which surprised me a little, but I think its because I maintained some distance, didn't immediately involve myself, and was not witnessing an escalating physical fight. I've been in bars/festivals when poop hits the fan and the adrenaline dumps, this was not like that.
Any lessons You would suggest? With any luck, this will be the closest to an altercation or need to consider whether to use lethal force I ever see. I feel better to know I was prepared to defend myself if the situation was worse/escalating. In the moment I forgot I had my flash light on me, but did not have my Cold Steel Recon folder. Still new to CC and lots on which to train.
I'm editing this from home (submitted from iPhone at Chili's bar) and thinking, how did I not see those two younger male teens? What if the OFWG got up, walked to his Navigator and pulled out a gun? BTW, the teens would have been behind the OFWG and in my line of fire, but again, I didn't notice them at the moment. I didn't have my flash light (Ultrafire 500lums) readied. I also didn't have my second magazine on me either. I also realize I kept my back to a restaurant and wasn't aware if anyone else was party to OFWG.
Any more experienced folks that can help question what I did or didn't do, please jump in. Again new to all of this and have planned to take defensive pistol classes beyond my first fundamentals class.