What would you do about the wolves?

R

Randy in Arizona

New member
I am glad I am not in this poor guys shoes! :mad: :mad:

Wolf kills

Wolf kills frustrate Avon rancher

By EVE BYRON - IR Staff Writer - 03/16/05
AVON — Last weekend, Tim Quigley found a calf that had been attacked by a wolf in his pasture, less than a half-mile from his house. When the calf died a few days later, it was the second confirmed wolf kill in 10 days; neighboring rancher Earl Stucky had a calf killed in a pasture less than a quarter mile from his home last week.

State and federal officials approved setting a trap. On Tuesday morning, it held a wolf.

A few hours later, Quigley watched in disbelief as the trap was opened and the wolf was set free.

"That's pretty damn frustrating for the ranchers," Quigley said. "The wolves come in, get my calf, we catch it and they turn it loose. Watching it lope across my meadow, knowing it's going to be back among my cattle — I'm kind of a quiet guy, but this really gets me going."
 
That's got to be one of first wolf kills in decades.

There was recent thread about animal deaths in the Yukon. The top animals were bears, moose and horses. Wolves weren't even listed.
 
The wolf pairs that were released in Idaho a decade or so ago, are now regularly killing cattle, sheep and dogs. Not to mention Elk and Deer. It's been documented that many of the kills are not for food, but are "sport" for these beasts. Yet the bliss ninnies have kept the farmers and ranchers at bay.

The response has been, S.S.S.
 
Same thing going on here Antipitas...
Big uproar in the Windriver range over some sheep that seemed to feed a wolf pair and thier cubs. Now all but one of the wolves and many of the sheep and a few dogs are dead. What a waste... :rolleyes:

What would I do about 'em? Declare them predators and let folks shoot them at will any place they were found other than on national park land. (That was Wyoming's original plan which the feds said would not do, ya know. Gotta be closer to the management proposal of ID and MT... :rolleyes: )
 
Probably going to start a few fires with this (not that I really give a damn), but having grown up in Western Montana I've had a pretty good insider's look at cattle ranching there. OMG, a rancher turns a couple head of cattle loose to graze on 10,000 acres of BLM land and has a hissy-fit when one of the natural predators shows up and takes one--what a tragedy! Seen it too many times, it's cost of doing business, get over it. Predatory wildlife in the Western US has had the $hit shot out of it by the cattle industry over the last hundred years primarily because of this predator extermination attitude. As a hunter, I like to think of myself as a conservation-friendly individual. So my answer is "You wanna become a rancher--great! You wanna turn loose a bunch of big, fat, juicy beef out in the wilderness for months at a time? Fine--go for it. But keep in mind, there's more out there than a bunch of grassy medows and chipmunks. So don't go thinking you OWN said wilderness and get the idea whatever else that might happen to be there needs to be blown away just because you decide to show up with cattle. Cost of doing business. Don't like it? Go back to the city."
 
The article mentioned the wolves making "sport kills". That's extremely rare with wolves, but like bears, they will kill, leave it for awhile, and come back to it later. I'm betting that's what the "sport kill" was.

By the way, Randy in AZ, you have wolves there too. The Mexican Wolf (pleeese, no illegal wolf wisecracks! :D :D ) was thought to be extinct since the 1940's, and has recently re-surfaced. They're a lot smaller than their northern counterparts, and they're listed as highly endangered on the fed. endangered species list.
 
The proper response to wolves is to kill them. Shooting is best, but poison works too. :)

Wolves, bears, pumas, magic unicorns all should be shot.
 
Rangefinder - well said.

People want to live in the wilderness, then get all nervous and birdlike when something wild happens. We got no shortage of cows, and they always make more.
 
What would I do about wolves?

I'd keep a good flat shooting, scoped rifle, plenty of good varmint loads, a sharpshooter shovel and a regular shovel.
I would keep a few nursery trees, roots in burlap and wet and when I saw a wolf I would use his bod to fertilize a new tree planting. In fact I'd kill every damned one of them when the Government wasn't looking!
 
Well, the fact of the matter is that the Feds have really spun the wolf re-population facts. Elk populations in WY, MT and ID are being hit VERY hard by the packs and hunters I speak to tell me they're seeing far less calves than ever before.

The wolf population out west has soared compared to the original estimates; much due to the myth that only the alpha's breed. Ultimately, the answer is going to be managing the wolf packs with licenses and tags, same as any other wild game.

Just returned from Dubois, WY where Fed Permits are already being granted.

As to the ranchers having the audacity to protect their cattle: I like beef. I like the price of beef. I don't like to be competing for that beef with predators. Wolves that kill cattle should be shot on sight and trapped when not sighted....we'd do as much if Fluffy the Cat was attacked.
Rich
 
Well not quite, Buzz_knox... At least in the Wyoming case, IIRC the sheep ground is private and has been owned and ranched by that family for over a hundred years. Due to the "endangered" regulations the ranchers couldn't stop them killing the sheep, though they knew of thier presence and called the G&F before any killing started. But too late, the adults of the pack and four pups started taking sheep and killed 13 or so in a couple of days. (yeah, for future consumption I'm sure. :rolleyes: ) Finally F&W came in and destoryed the pups and adults - though they couldn't locate the adult male who I'll bet won't ever turn up without the use of a shovel! End result - a couple dozen of dead livestock and one dead pack of wolves.

Who's to pay for it? Cost of doing business for the rancher you say... Well, ignorance is indeed bliss too. But it will not be the rancher I assure you - insurance and the government will see he doesn't suffer immediatly financially, but we the public will end up footing the bill elsewhere and you know what insurance premiums do when you start making claims on them...

Wolves were run outta hereabouts long ago, with a few stragglers and/or transients living here that knew to keep thier heads down and fangs outta the livestock.

Now they import 'em into the ranchers' backyard and tell 'em they can't stop predation. Uncontrolled predators cause problems in many forms - not just cause they can eat you.

We're not talking about wilderness areas or national parks here, this is private property and places I (or maybe you) take your dog for a walk and the kids on picnics... Well, used to.

Wolves were run outta here for reasons people were smart enough to recognize a hundred years ago - people who forget thier history and are doomed to repeat it.

Wanna hear wolves - go to the wilderness and national parks, or Canada where there's plenty of unsettled land they still populate, but keep them outta my back yard!

A few interesting articles for more info:
Attacks -
http://www.usa4id.com/Documents/Documented Human Wolf Attacks.htm
http://www.aws.vcn.com/wolf_attacks_on_humans.html
http://www.natureswolves.com/human/aws_wolfattacks.htm
http://www.casperstartribune.net/ar.../wyoming/d465b011b3325ef0872570360006278d.txt - walkin' your dog will never be the same again...

Who's going to pay for it? -
http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov03/183660.asp
http://www.wolf.org/wolf/learn/iwmag/1999/infobook/infobk8.asp

What Wyoming wants to do -
http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2005/07/02/news/0a5233f66c4e972787257032000694a2.txt (Also mentions the incident I talk about in my post.)
http://www.casperstartribune.net/ar.../columns/7175d3fd58e94beb8725702f008082ea.txt (And more on the incident by Farson)
http://www.casperstartribune.net/ar.../wyoming/b63f36028b40b08787257030000a6331.txt

And a neighbor's editorial who sums up my feelings quite welll -
http://www.casperstartribune.net/ar.../letters/eac59f36da9ec396872570390021163f.txt

Ugh!! - all the stuff from the Casper star didn't come across - I'll leave the links in place in case someone with more knowhow wants to look 'em up... I located them with a quick article search for "wolf."

Wolves are best had worn on a cold day.
 
Speaking of cost to he public for reintroduction of wolves: A few years back the USF&WS offered three options and their costs for reintroducing the Mexican wolf into New Mexico, Arizona and west Texas.

Full implementation: $13 million per year.
Partial implementation: $8 million per year.
No action: $4 million per year.

What I want to know is, how does doing nothing cost $4 million per year?

Art
 
I like beef and all...

But that beef happens to be in the wolf's natural habitat, and became convenient dinner. We really don't have any natural rights to do away with wildlife, as has happened with the wolves and other endangered animals. If I am in the wilderness, I would much rather see wildlife than cattle. Sorry, but I am on the wolves' side on this one.


Save a wolf, eat a cow!
 
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But that beef happens to be in the wolf's natural habitat
[snip]
If I am in the wilderness...
Click to expand...
If you are in the wilderness, you are also in the wolf's natural habitat; so is your child and your family pet.....food chain is food chain.

OTOH, the wolf is also in **your** natural habitat and you have as much right to be part of that ecosystem as he; were we to allow "nature" to take its course, the wolf would "naturally" loose to the better predator....you.

I doubt anyone here is calling for their eradication. Plenty of protected, tax paid land out their for them to flourish without artificial protections allowing them to kill livestock for personal kicks.
Rich
 
Rangefinder you should take a closer look at the BLM issue. Or a better term would be land grab by the government! Much of the BLM land was land taken away from people during the Clinton administration.
 
Hmmmmm

I forget what % of the land out West is owned by BLM, but it is quite large. I don't believe that Clinton made any significant increase in it though.
See:
landsmap_tt.jpg


As far as the wolves eating lots of elk calves... I don't know... I do know that ranchers in MN were reporting lots of calf losses due to wolves, for pregnant cattle that were left out in the bush with all the others. When some research was done by the state, it was found that these ranchers were (A) reporting losses for calves they never saw (B) weren't very good at understanding when their cows were pregnant.

I am sure that wolves are taking some grazers... a wolf's gotta eat, and doesn't only eat mice, but as far as them representing an actual threat to grazer numbers - I can't understand why that would be true. When the first Europeans came here, there were wolves and mountain lions all over, and yet there were vast numbers of grazers.

When I was in Norway, and asked the Norwegians (famed for shipbuilding, seafaring, and fishing prowess) what happened to all the fish in their fjords, they insisted - "seals ate them all". Nevermind those huge ships with sophisticated electronic sonar and helicopter spotters, giant nets, onboard catch processing, feeding a global population of 6 billion 75kg bipeds with their work - the Norwegians I spoke with, anyway, had no doubt - it was the seals that are responsible for the fish declines. Their plan - clear out all the seals too (not kidding).
 
CarbineCaleb you would be surprised at how much land was taken from people and the press said nothing! Why! Because the press loved Clinton. And the BLM in there minds was a good thing because it put land back to "Wild" so to speak.
 
Common sense will work.

People should be allowed to protect their property.

People shouldn't be allowed to engage in eradication efforts.

The problem with totally banning wolf-killing is that if they are allowed to subsist on livestock they can hunt their other prey to the point of extinction.

What keeps predator populations in check is the population of their prey. If they kill a lot of prey the prey population decreases which means that the predator population will die down as well. When they can live off livestock in the hard times, that means that even when normal prey populations start to plummet, large numbers of wolves can keep hunting them.

The problem with eradication is that the wolves are an important part of the life-cycle. If they are kept in check and prevented from eating livestock, they should ultimately improve the overall health of their normal prey by culling the herds. Humans aren't so good at that. We like to kill the best and we do because we can.

So, to deal with the problems caused by this artificial situation, you have to control the wolf population.

When they start eating livestock either they've learned bad habits or their normal prey populations are low. Either way it's time to kill some wolves.

As far as the hunting issues (low numbers of elk/deer, etc.), that should take care of itself once the livestock predation is reduced or eliminated.
 
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