someone used a high powered rifle in a home defense situation? I was just wondering because I only have a few high powered rifles (7mm RM,30-30,270)in my home, I don't own a shotgun or handgun. If the situation ever did come up where I had to defend my life against an intruder,what would happen if I got a shot off with my 7mm RM at a really close range(10-20ft)? I know that it would probably cause some hearing damage, but would the bullet cause any damage to the intruder or just pass right through without expanding and go through the wall and into the next house down the street? I hope I never need to defend myself from an intruder, but if I did I would just like to know what to expect. Thanks.
What would happen if .................
- Thread starter imq707s
- Start date
Buy a shotgun, they are not that expensive for an ok one. I'd say to get one of those singles or just get a standard pump model. 12 gauge is home defense ideal in my opinion. Use slugs though, shot, especially now with all the restrictions on lead and subsequent steel usage, can be dangerous if it hits something hard and riqochets. At the end of my hallways there's the stairs, but if I fired at someone going up them, I could shoot through the wall and hit my bathtub, which if hit by steel shot, would send pellets in every direction, which is a bad bad thing. Copper/lead slugs are very very good for home defense, and the close range effect is considerably better than any AR, AK, FAL, Mauser, or .50 BMG(point blank .50 BMG would probably go right through them and whatever was behind them, and whatever was behind that, etc...). With a good load you can achieve ft/pound impacts at close range that class IV body armor will not save someone from. It may not be glamourous like an AK or AR, but it is the best too for the job by far. If you live on a ranch though.. then larger bore rifles have some place, though the shotgun still is the upclose king.
I agree with Dangus that a shotgun is better, but and thats a BIG BUT, if all you have is that 7MM Mag, or the 270 Winchester, I can (like the Cajun says) Garontee it will stop him, plus put a hole in him (if you are using soft points) that you can see tomorrow's sunrise through(he wont live to see it though 
). 3 weeks later your ears may stop ringing, and hopefully no one was in line with the 4 or 5 walls that the bullet also penetrated after it exited the bad guy. Thats the problem with using a rifle like that ........ penetration. Plus the muzzle blast is worse even than a shotgun.
). 3 weeks later your ears may stop ringing, and hopefully no one was in line with the 4 or 5 walls that the bullet also penetrated after it exited the bad guy. Thats the problem with using a rifle like that ........ penetration. Plus the muzzle blast is worse even than a shotgun.Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Of the three cartridges mentioned, I doubt there would be any notable difference in perceived db level if you fired one indoors. Major "ouchie".
The least over-penetration would be the lightest-weight bullet you could find in either the 7mm or the .270; they would be the most likely to "blow up" or fragment in the hittee. Or walls, for that matter...
FWIW, Art
The least over-penetration would be the lightest-weight bullet you could find in either the 7mm or the .270; they would be the most likely to "blow up" or fragment in the hittee. Or walls, for that matter...
FWIW, Art
All I can say is open your mouth wide and exhale hard and you might have some hearing left in a couple of weeks. I have discharged a .223 unprotected in an enclosed space, and don't wish to repeat the experience. I personally wouldn't worry about terminal effects, yeah the bullet will probably pass through, but I see your Who wants to be a Corpse? contestant having way bigger problems than bleeding eardrums.
"I have discharged a .223 unprotected in an enclosed space, and don't wish to repeat the experience" I kinda know the feeling Navy Joe...........tried a 16 gauge in the ktichen once............hot only was the noise bad but the lil flakes of celetex ceiling tile in the gumbo that was on the stove did not enhance the taste...........it did not matter I could not hear to eat for a few days anyway .
.Two things - drilling a hole in someone with one of the calibers mentioned will certainly swing the odds in your favor. The maniacs we hear about that keep charging after taking a half-dozen .44mag rounds or something are exceedingly rare cases, although they are out there. Most break-ins are kids or petty thieves who just want your TV and are not willing to have a gunfight over it. So a loud boom and a hard thump in the gut will end most arguments. (Just think about being on the receiving end of one of those rounds, even if it doesn't expand. Ouch!)
But now you really do have to think about the neighbors, since that bullet's flight isn't done yet. It is, effectively, the same as firing the gun in a random direction from inside your house. Look around your neighborhood and visualize where a randomly fired bullet will go. That's the consequence you are faced with in the situation you described.
So I agree with the previous posters about picking up a shotgun. Far less potent firearms are much better for close range stuff like break-in defense when you are in a crowded area like a typical neighborhood. My choice is a .410 shotgun that I picked up used for about $100. Also, small-caliber pistols are surprisingly cheap these days when everyone seems to want hi-capacity .50s or 10-inch barrel .44 mags. A .32, .380, even a .22 (think about catching 3 or 4 .22 rounds in the face, and ask yourself if you're going to keep charging) are plenty effective for the situation you describe, and less likely to put you in a courtroom to answer for the .30 caliber bullet hole in your neighbor's behind.
DL
But now you really do have to think about the neighbors, since that bullet's flight isn't done yet. It is, effectively, the same as firing the gun in a random direction from inside your house. Look around your neighborhood and visualize where a randomly fired bullet will go. That's the consequence you are faced with in the situation you described.
So I agree with the previous posters about picking up a shotgun. Far less potent firearms are much better for close range stuff like break-in defense when you are in a crowded area like a typical neighborhood. My choice is a .410 shotgun that I picked up used for about $100. Also, small-caliber pistols are surprisingly cheap these days when everyone seems to want hi-capacity .50s or 10-inch barrel .44 mags. A .32, .380, even a .22 (think about catching 3 or 4 .22 rounds in the face, and ask yourself if you're going to keep charging) are plenty effective for the situation you describe, and less likely to put you in a courtroom to answer for the .30 caliber bullet hole in your neighbor's behind.
DL
Legionnaire
New member
I agree with Dangus that a shotgun would be just the ticket. But if you plan on using slugs, I'd go with a 20 gauge rather than a 12. Less recoil, and the guy on the receiving end won't notice the difference at the ranges you are talking. Same with buckshot. You'll be so close that the difference between the 12 and 20 will be unnoticeable. If you have and like a 12, great. But I've heard Mas Ayoob say that a 20 is sufficient for home defense purposes.
Another alternative would be a .223 semi-automatic (AR type or Mini-14) with frangible bullets. They will break up when they hit something rather than carrying on down the block.
Anyone have an opinion on pistol cartridge carbines or lever actions? How about the Ruger PC9 (9mm) or PC4 (.40S&W)? Or a Marlin 1894 loaded with .44 specials?
Another alternative would be a .223 semi-automatic (AR type or Mini-14) with frangible bullets. They will break up when they hit something rather than carrying on down the block.
Anyone have an opinion on pistol cartridge carbines or lever actions? How about the Ruger PC9 (9mm) or PC4 (.40S&W)? Or a Marlin 1894 loaded with .44 specials?
Regarding stopping the BG; Last year I shot a whitetail through the shoulders with a 30-'06, 165 gr Nosler ballistic tip at a range of 10 - 15 ft. Huge exit wound, short blood trail a city boy could follow, that deer was dead on it's feet, I am quite certain a BG would be also.
Allthough a big game rifle will stop a person at close range a shotgun is a much better tool for the task, IMHO. Also, lower end shotguns are just too cheap to not have one or two handy. Suggest looking at the cheaper single shots or pumps. A New England Firearms 12 ga. single shot is $78.00 new at my local walmart, they are light, handy and extemely reliable. For larger varmits, anything larger than fox, I like to use #4 buck (lead or plated lead). Slugs penetrate lots more than buckshot.
Allthough a big game rifle will stop a person at close range a shotgun is a much better tool for the task, IMHO. Also, lower end shotguns are just too cheap to not have one or two handy. Suggest looking at the cheaper single shots or pumps. A New England Firearms 12 ga. single shot is $78.00 new at my local walmart, they are light, handy and extemely reliable. For larger varmits, anything larger than fox, I like to use #4 buck (lead or plated lead). Slugs penetrate lots more than buckshot.
VictorLouis
New member
I must disagree w/Dangus' following observation:
"Use slugs though, shot, especially now with all the restrictions on lead and subsequent steel usage, can be dangerous if it hits something hard and riqochets."
The restrictions on lead shot apply to limited areas for the purposes of hunting. I'm not aware of any restrictions in it's use for HD. To opine the use of a SLUG for such purposes is advocating a danger level 2nd only to the use of one of the rifles you mentioned owning. The slug load would certainly be easier on your hearing(than the rifle), but the hazard of overpenetraion is still far too extreme. While pellets of shot that miss the recepient may still pose a hazard, it is dramatically LESS than that of a slug which misses.
Come on over to the SG forum, and research several of the posts re: 'Buck vs. shot'. Dave Mcc has a wealth of knowledge and experience on the matter. You will find that he is a vociferous advocate of birdshot(of some type) for INTERIOR HD usage.
"Use slugs though, shot, especially now with all the restrictions on lead and subsequent steel usage, can be dangerous if it hits something hard and riqochets."
The restrictions on lead shot apply to limited areas for the purposes of hunting. I'm not aware of any restrictions in it's use for HD. To opine the use of a SLUG for such purposes is advocating a danger level 2nd only to the use of one of the rifles you mentioned owning. The slug load would certainly be easier on your hearing(than the rifle), but the hazard of overpenetraion is still far too extreme. While pellets of shot that miss the recepient may still pose a hazard, it is dramatically LESS than that of a slug which misses.
Come on over to the SG forum, and research several of the posts re: 'Buck vs. shot'. Dave Mcc has a wealth of knowledge and experience on the matter. You will find that he is a vociferous advocate of birdshot(of some type) for INTERIOR HD usage.
I agree that a shotgun or moderate power handgun would be better than almost any rifle in a situation where overpenetration is a concern. Do NOT, however, believe that a shot charge will not penetrate dry wall or most interior doors and do damage on the other side. There is a myth that a shotgun will put out a "cloud" of shot which does not have any penetration power, yet has somehow enough power to kill. In fact, at room distances, the pattern will be around 2-3 inches, so simply firing randomly into a room will not magically dispose of an intruder; aiming is still necessary.
And at short distances, a shot charge, even of No. 4 or No. 6 will scarcely spread at all, so as far as penetration is concerned, it will be nearly equivalent to a solid shot. It will penetrate two layers of 3/8 or 1/2 drywall and have enough energy left to kill or seriously wound anyone on the other side. So firing a shotgun toward the baby's room is not a great idea.
The horrible fact is that in the right (or wrong) circumstances almost any gun capable of killing or seriously wounding an intruder is capable of killing an innocent person by overpenetration. This also means that drywall will be no protection for a resident against almost any reasonably powerful gun the intruder may have, and he is less likely to be concerned about injuring innocent people. Understanding these facts is necessary before talking about home defense with firearms.
Jim
And at short distances, a shot charge, even of No. 4 or No. 6 will scarcely spread at all, so as far as penetration is concerned, it will be nearly equivalent to a solid shot. It will penetrate two layers of 3/8 or 1/2 drywall and have enough energy left to kill or seriously wound anyone on the other side. So firing a shotgun toward the baby's room is not a great idea.
The horrible fact is that in the right (or wrong) circumstances almost any gun capable of killing or seriously wounding an intruder is capable of killing an innocent person by overpenetration. This also means that drywall will be no protection for a resident against almost any reasonably powerful gun the intruder may have, and he is less likely to be concerned about injuring innocent people. Understanding these facts is necessary before talking about home defense with firearms.
Jim
Doc Hudson
New member
Get a 12 guage pump shotgun.
My choice for a home defense shotgun is a Mossberg M-500 with an 18.5" barrel.
Use lead shot, either 000, 00, 0, #1, #2, #4, or BB, #2, or #4 shot. While smaller shot might well be lethal at close range, it lacks weight for reliable penetration. It might well result in a nasty surface wound that allows an attacker to return effective fire. Stick with the larger shot and point with care since wall penetration is still a factor.
Doc Hudson
My choice for a home defense shotgun is a Mossberg M-500 with an 18.5" barrel.
Use lead shot, either 000, 00, 0, #1, #2, #4, or BB, #2, or #4 shot. While smaller shot might well be lethal at close range, it lacks weight for reliable penetration. It might well result in a nasty surface wound that allows an attacker to return effective fire. Stick with the larger shot and point with care since wall penetration is still a factor.
Doc Hudson
out on a limb
imq707s,
If its at all possible get a shotgun or handgun. Having said that I realize that not everyone can just go right out and pull out a couple hundred dollars for a new gun. So if you have to use a deer rifle for home defense in a city or suburban there is ammo better suited to the job than the standard deer hunting offerings. What I would recommend is one of the 30-30 rounds loaded with a 170 to 200 grain flat point, soft lead bullet at 1100 to 1400 fps. These could be loaded for you by an experienced local reloader or you can even find them online for sale to cowboy action shooters to use in SIDE matches. I found a couple of places that sell them online with a quick search on http://www.google.com before I posted this. The soft lead bullet should expand well even at those velocities and provide plenty of short range power. The low velocity should also help with the noise level. I have fired full power loads indoors during training and practically lost my hearing for a couple of hours, this could be a major problem if you are facing multiple intruders.
Like I said in the beginning I am probably out on a limb by myself on this one, but I think the reduced loads in a 30-30 will get the job done for you. They produce plenty of power, low noise, and reduce your chances of killing your own family and neighbors at the same time as the intruder.
Still get a shotgun if you can.
imq707s,
If its at all possible get a shotgun or handgun. Having said that I realize that not everyone can just go right out and pull out a couple hundred dollars for a new gun. So if you have to use a deer rifle for home defense in a city or suburban there is ammo better suited to the job than the standard deer hunting offerings. What I would recommend is one of the 30-30 rounds loaded with a 170 to 200 grain flat point, soft lead bullet at 1100 to 1400 fps. These could be loaded for you by an experienced local reloader or you can even find them online for sale to cowboy action shooters to use in SIDE matches. I found a couple of places that sell them online with a quick search on http://www.google.com before I posted this. The soft lead bullet should expand well even at those velocities and provide plenty of short range power. The low velocity should also help with the noise level. I have fired full power loads indoors during training and practically lost my hearing for a couple of hours, this could be a major problem if you are facing multiple intruders.
Like I said in the beginning I am probably out on a limb by myself on this one, but I think the reduced loads in a 30-30 will get the job done for you. They produce plenty of power, low noise, and reduce your chances of killing your own family and neighbors at the same time as the intruder.
Still get a shotgun if you can.
As to the effects of a high powered rifle bullet at close range, during the Korean War I saw many people shot at pint blank range with M1 Garands firing full metal jacketed ,30 tcaliber bullets at a uzzle veloci of @ 2,800 feet per second. These bullets did not expand of course but they did signicant damage to the targets, usually giving a one or two round stop.
I am definitely side with Victor Lewis, Zorro, and Jim Keenan.
Shotgun? The best choice
12 guage slug? No way! use dove load, or whatever, but slugs are potentially gonzo penetrators (400-500 grains @ 1,000-1,500 fps). Lead restrictions? Did I miss something?That sounds like hunting...besides, who gives a hoot?
12 and 20 guage do exhibit similar penetration out to 7-10 yards.
Shotgun? The best choice
12 guage slug? No way! use dove load, or whatever, but slugs are potentially gonzo penetrators (400-500 grains @ 1,000-1,500 fps). Lead restrictions? Did I miss something?That sounds like hunting...besides, who gives a hoot?
12 and 20 guage do exhibit similar penetration out to 7-10 yards.