What will improve your shooting habits more

R

Roland Thunder

New member
Assuming you shoot 9mm and you are a person that has trouble with flinching (like me), what will help you more:

  1. Shooting a gun with less recoil, like a .22lr
  2. Shooting a gun with more recoil, like a .40 or .45

I usually have #1 suggested to me, I am a little more inclined to believe #2 would be more helpful. The idea being, if you get used to shooting a .40 or .45 then the recoil of a 9mm will seem a lot less when you switch back. Kind of the same thinking like in basketball practice when they have you wear ankle weights to practice in then have you take them off for game time. I had one guy tell me he started shooting a .22 to learn to quit flinching. Once he got to where he didn't flinch anymore with the .22, he switched back to 9mm and then started flinching again.
 
you know, I've had people suggest dry firing to get over fliching. I can dry fire until the cows come home and not fliich a bit and then get get to the range and start flinching left and right. I'm even sucessful consistently doing that drill where you put a dime on the front sight and then dry fire.
 
I like having a friend load some dummy rounds or snap caps. Dry firing with dummy rounds or snap caps (be careful) is also helpful.
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Excellent advice.

You can do the same thing with a revolver just loading and empty case mixed with live rounds and spinning the cylinder.

Are you flinching from recoil/blast (pain/discomfort) or anticipating the recoil and over correcting for it trying to keep your shots on paper?

If it is pain/discomfort, you need to remedy that. Either better PPE or change the gun. Otherwise you will never get better. Unless you become a sadomasocist (or however you spell that word).:eek:

Anticipating recoil can be helped by using a .22, especially a .22 conversion or version of the gun you are using.
 
How bad is your flinch? Is it so bad that you miss torso sized targets at self defense range?

I do not mean to be cavalier here, but you may be making a mountain out of a molehill. Your post mentions basketball so I'll use that for analogy. Everyone can play basketball. Not everyone can play like Lebron.

Your flinch may be part of you, and un-curable. The only way to find out is to keep trying things until you either cure it or give up and live with what you've got. A little flinch is a problem if you are trying to reach some type of competitive level, but not for general self defense or recreational shooting (I'm assuming you're not talking about hunting)

My personal opinion is that more shooting will help. I probably shoot half a dozen rounds of .22 for every larger caliber round I shoot. It's cheaper.
 
I have found that a combo of dry firing and live shooting worked for me. All I know is that I practiced shooting (about 17-20k rounds in one year), dry firing (almost every day), and at whatever point things started to work. I also shot a bunch of different guns with all kinds of trigger pulls, and the variety helped me learn to feel when the trigger breaks on different guns. My personal opionion was that the dry firing helped more than anything. Practicing holding the gun on target when the trigger breaks, without flinching, is where its at. I guess if shooting live rounds throws you off much then you probably need to shoot more. There is no substitue for practice, anyone you see shooting nice tight groups has most definitely put in the time to do the training. Shooting well doesnt take alot of strength, bravery, or superior intellect, it takes an open mind and good hand eye coordination and alot of practice. If you are a good shooter, caliber doesnt matter, its knowing how to grip a gun and pull the trigger.
 
GregInAtl said:
I usually have #1 suggested to me, I am a little more inclined to believe #2 would be more helpful. The idea being, if you get used to shooting a .40 or .45 then the recoil of a 9mm will seem a lot less when you switch back.
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All #2 will do is set the flinch more. If you are flinching on 9mm (whether being unsettled by recoil, unsettled by blast/noise, or more likely anticipating the shot), a heavier recoilling pistol is just going to magnify the problem.

Go with practicing on a .22 for a while, then move back to 9mm while mixing in dummy rounds. It (the .22) will help you to get the flinch out of muscle memory. The dummy rounds will help you focus more on operating the pistol, rather than focusing on the recoil.
 
Just a point of interest, I can shoot about 18 rounds with a 44 mag and then I start flenching. It happens everytime I take it to the range, but give me a 22 and I'll shoot it all day with no tendence to flinch. For me its a mind set, yes its going to kick, its going to go boom and I accept those facts. As you may have noticed that mind set last about 18 rounds.:D
 
if you get used to shooting a .40 or .45 then the recoil of a 9mm will seem a lot less when you switch back.
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Another way of saying this is "if you think your 9mm flinch is bad, get a bigger one from a bigger caliber, and it won't seem as bad". It's kinda like turning your car radio louder to drown out the noise of a misfiring engine.

Besides, it's unlikely you're flinching strictly because of the recoil. Muzzle blast, and muzzle flash for instance, are better flinch inducers than recoil.

I'm a big fan of practicing with .22s, but it's also possible that the source of your flinch is from something other than recoil, in which case, it'd be better to address that with your 9mm. For example, you may be flinching because you're trying to that good shot off, so you're snatching the trigger when you think your sights are right on.

Either way, try this: Use your 9mm, but get rid of the target. Just shoot into the berm. Watch the front sight, but let the round go where it goes (but into the berm, of course). During this, relax and let your mind wrap itself around the idea that you're not "trying" to do anything, and that recoil & muzzle blast won't hurt you.
 
Flinching is as reflexive as blinking when someone quickly sticks their finger toward your eye.

I'm a fan of the .22 to tame the flinch. And dummy rounds. And dry fire.
And double hearing protection. And turning paper targets around so you are looking at the blank back side (so as to *actually* focus on the front sight).

There are lots of things that can help.

Using a bigger gun isn't one of them.
 
Some folks flinch more because of muzzle blast than recoil. A .22lr has less muzzle blast and noise than most centerfire cartridges and shooting outside with good hearing protection may be better than shooting indoors if muzzle blast is a problem.
 
I think any time you spend shooting anything will help, but 22 is a very easy round to shoot accurately. It has almost no recoil, is much quieter, and a very accurate round. Getting good with a 22 doesnt mean you will be good witha 40 or 45 or what have you. I personally dont see the point of practicing with something other than what you want to become good with. If you can shoot 22 well but the gun you want to shoot well you cant hit squat with, you need to practice with the gun you cant shoot well. Shootine a 22 is much more like shooting a bb gun than it is like shooting a man stopping caliber. If 22's are all you ever want to shoot, then practice with it all you want, but if you want to learn to shoot 45's, practice with 45's. Or 9mm, or whatever it is you like. Get the 22 after you learn to shoot and want to have fun at a low cost.
 
If I were you all I would shoot right now is a 22 rimfire. Once you have become a good shooter with that and have instilled good proper shooting habits move up to a full size service 9mm. Maybe you might want to seek out another good shooter that understands teaching also. There are alot of good shooters around that just are not good teachers. I think one of the best books out there is Ed McGiverns "Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting". Even if your not shooting revolvers he teaches a way of thinking.
 
What are you doing for hearing protection? Are you using both plugs and muffs? If not, try doubling up- it makes a difference and may help.
 
I believe my flinching is due more to anticipating than it is the recoil/fear of recoil, etc. What's odd is, I am more accurate with my 45 than I am my 9mm, but then my 45 has a lighter trigger (Apex DCAEK). I also seem to flinch when shooting my .38 spl revolver, even though there is a lot less recoil. I am pretty accurate with the .38, way off with the 9mm, though.

I use ear muffs for hearing protection
 
What Ronbert said.

I had a HORRIBLE problem.

I began shooting at least 200 rounds of .22lr for every 50 of 9mm or .45. My flinching has declined. My group sizes are now around 4" instead of 8" at 7 yards. I can now put 49 out of 50 rounds [from either my 9mm Hi Power or my 1911 in .45acp] into the red/orange center 'X' oval [7 or 8" tall by about 3-4" wide] consistantly, with 35 of the 50 rounds at the same end [top or bottom] of the 'x' oval.

Last year I'd get 20 our of 50 rounds somewhere in that ring.

Plus, that amount of shooting that is taming my flinch was with [cheap] .22lr. I couldn't afford to shoot .45 enough to tame it.
 
I believe my flinching is due more to anticipating than it is the recoil/fear of recoil, etc. What's odd is, I am more accurate with my 45 than I am my 9mm, but then my 45 has a lighter trigger (Apex DCAEK). I also seem to flinch when shooting my .38 spl revolver, even though there is a lot less recoil. I am pretty accurate with the .38, way off with the 9mm, though.

I use ear muffs for hearing protection
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You are trying to control the recoil before it arrives. I used to do the same thing.

Take your .38 and load two live rounds and 4 fired cases into in and spin the cylinder (without looking;)) and then close it. Fire off those rounds in single action.

Keep doing this until you work out of that anticipation. Then switch to double action and do it again.

By that time you will probably be solid on your grip/trigger control.

I had to do the same thing many years ago, I used a Ruger Blackhawk in .38. I used the same gun and technique to fix my brother's flinching. You should have seen the light in his eyes when he finally got it and he started being able to call the shots on the paper instead of just hitting the paper.

It also helps to make sure that you have good follow through on the automatics. Hold that trigger back until you line up for the next shot. "Ride the sear" I think it is called. That extra focus on trigger control will help you to ignore the urge to fight the recoil down. Just focus on "Squeeze and hold" let the gun recoil.

I went from shooting a 8.5 X 11 inch of paper at 15 yards to being able to "call my shots" and shoot 5 distinct groups on that same piece of paper. One in each corner and one group in the middle. With a G19 and crappy UMC 115gr bulk ammo.:cool:
 
I've seen people who were doing really, really well with club .22s be unable to hit the paper after about 6 rounds with 9mm.
They'd go back to the .22 for 50 rounds to recover.

I go back to .22 to recover from 5 rounds of .44 Mag.

Another trick to try is to slow fire such that you hold the trigger back when it goes off, put the sights back on target, THEN ease the trigger forward to reset. Do several magazines this way. It helps a LOT with followthru.
 
I recommend plugs AND earmuffs, you did not say if you were mainly an indoors shooter, I am, I learned a long time ago that I am noise sensitive, the extra ear protection makes sound anticipation much less of a problem for me.
 
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