What to recommend for an elderly lady? If anything?

S

sserdlihc

New member
I have a lady that I work with whose mother is needing a new handgun for personal protection at home. She lives out in the country and is 80 years old. She still has all of her faculties and still drives herself around. She has arthritis and doesn't have alot of strength in her hands. Occasionally she has grand children and great grand-children over to visit. I recommended that whatever she gets she needs to have some sort of gunvault to keep the children from getting ahold of it. She agreed with me. I had them come over to my house so they could handle a few of my handguns. Needless to say, she could not rack the slide of my XDM40, P89, or my wifes' colt. I showed her my old Colt agent 38spl. I emptied the cylinder and handed it to her and she couldn't pull the hammer back! She could pull the trigger once the hammer was pulled back, but couldn't pull the trigger when it wasn't.

I suggested to her maybe she needs a shotgun for personal protection and she was adamant that she wanted a handgun. I handed her my 870 pump shotgun and she was able to operate it with confidence. So I was pushing her to really consider a shotgun. She really wants to have a revolver but I believe whatever she buys she won't have enough strength to operate it with any safety or confidence.

I am at a total loss as to what I could recommend to her as far as a revolver? Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
She can do more than either of you give her credit for! Look at the revolver from a broader perspective. She has tons of things around her to get the hammer back with: counter tops, tables tops, shoe soles, belts, window sills, door jams. We used to teach Officers to cycle actions, chamber rounds, get hammers back, etc as part of emergency drills in the event that one of the Officers hands, or arms becomes injured or put out of action. Your neighbor lady can do that too. Just teach it to her as part of the function drills like it's natural. I've never been much of a hand at Colts, but S&W's such as the Model 10 can have the hammer/trigger springs tuned (lightened) and still function quite well. I have a few old ones that I punch paper with.
And they are 100% reliable and the recoil isn't bad at all with standard lead ball ammo. And, sure, the super-duper +P is great, but a 158 lead ball is by far better than nothing. After all, it seems to me that all sorts of European and American cemetary space is filled up with folks killed with cartridges of lesser heft than the .38 SPL. Don't give up on her- I bet she'll do just fine.
 
but S&W's such as the Model 10 can have the hammer/trigger springs tuned
Click to expand...

Good information. FYI SHE refuses to have a gun that she can't operate. It isn't a matter so much of what we think or believe. If she feels uncomfortable then she won't have any confidence. I do appreciate the infomation on the model 10.
 
I recently found the wife an old S&W chambered in .32 S&W Long (I've been told it's an 'I' frame) with a reasonable pull. So light-triggered revolvers do exist.

At some point the old gal is going to have to shoot the thing - just for practice anyway - and felt recoil will become an issue. So a small caliber revolver is probably the ticket, but have you looked at some of the funky little derringers? Maybe something double action safe and in .22 long rifle makes sense.

Does it need to go bang? Get her a taser. :eek:
 
The arthritis thing is a doozy, my mother is 76 and her fingers are not going to bend far enough to even locate or operate a single action trigger. It isn't a strength issue, it's a calcium deposit or disentegrating cartilage issue if I remember what she described. They just don't bend.
A shotgun reconsideration maybe?
 
Last edited:
In the "for what its worth" department,

I had a client who was in her 80s and wanted a handgun for the same reason. She wound up selecting a .22 LR caliber S&W revolver.

I expect that many on this forum may have problems with that choice of caliber.

But it was what she could reliably operate, fire, and hit what she aimed at with. She wanted something she could carry around with her as she moved around inside her house, not a shotgun or short .22 rifle. We loaded it with the CCI high velocity rounds.

And for those who think a .22 is a mouse caliber, well...stand up and allow yourself to be shot 10 times with it.

It's all about what the client has confidence in and is competent with, and what they can afford to practice with regularly.

'Better a hit with a .22 than a miss with a .44 magnum....'

It worked for a woman I knew in her 80's, perhaps it may work for your friend's mother.

Regards,

Doc
 
She has an old Burgo 32 that she can't pull the hammer back as well. She said that she went out in the yard and tried to shoot it and used a case knife to pull the trigger back with to fire the gun!:eek:
 
Hammer Extension or Single Action?

sserdlihc,

Thanks for asking our advice.

To answer your specific question in two ways:

There are hammer extensions available (mainly used for hunting revolvers with optical sights where the sighting device extends over the hammer, making cocking difficult or impossible. One of these might enable her to cock a revolver.

Single action revolvers generally have larger hammer spurs. She might be able to operate one of those easier than cocking a double action revolver. Two questions are pertinent to this choice. Will she be able to practice enough with such a gun (or any gun) to be confident and competent with it? How much longer will she be able to operate the gun? Arthritis is progressive, after all.

But I have more thoughts:

Does she have any experience with guns? What type? How much?

Is she willing to use deadly force on another human being?

Does she reject sub-lethal defensive weapons (taser, pepper spray, etc. or perhaps a dog.)?

12 Gauge shotgun might be a bit much for her, but 16 or 20 gauge are lighter and deliver far more power on target than any handgun as easily handled.

An old adage states: "People don't buy drills because they need drills. They buy drills because they need holes." This lady wants a gun, not because she needs a gun. What is it that she really needs?

The 870 is not all that light for an 80-year old with arthritis. If you could borrow a 20 gauge pump for her to try, she might like it. If it were possible to take her to the range and let her put five 20 gauge slugs into a target 21 feet away, then put five 38 slugs into a target, she might change her mind based on the accuracy results alone, not to mention the difference in recoil. Then, if she is still undecided, set up a couple of melons and shoot one with the 38 and the other with a 20 gauge. My last argument for the shotgun is the sound. There are few sounds that suggest "retreat" to an intruder more emphatically than that of the closing of a pump shotgun's action.

Miscellaneous other thought:
A gun safe is good, but some people don't like to devote that much closet space. There are lock-boxes made for the 870 (and others) that enclose the action parts (trigger, ejection port, loading port), locks the slide forward and (I think) allow the gun to be secured to a wall. The stock and barrel stick out but the gun is very securely locked up.

Lost Sheep
 
Last edited:
Have you or she looked at the Baretta bobcat/cougar line with the tip-up barrels?

Admittedly the DA trigger pull for a first shot is a bit long, but I do not think it is too heavy (sorry, no trigger guage so can't give you the actual number).

Those tip-up barrels make loading and unloading a lot easier on old or weak hands. As for caliber choice availability - remember that the gun that you can work and is in your hand, no matter what caliber, is 100% more effective that the boomenthunderstick you cannot hold or pull the trigger.

Watch out for tuning the mainspring of a revolver too low. There has to be enough energy in the spring to make the hammer-strike set off the primer. An "older" Colt or S&W service revolver that has the trigger pull smoothed by hundreds of thousands of firings/dry-firings can be just the ticket without having to reduce the spring pressure.

Hope you two work out the kinks.

stay safe.

skidmark
 
From what ive heard a simple .410 shotgun is equal to a 44 mag and its better than nothing with simple loads of b/shot. 80? i dont know but my Moms 76 and she keeps a 9 shot 22 at home with her with hollowpoints no less, but even a hammer is better than nothing as long as it connects. Its a shame but alot of people in our sociaty prey on the elderly thats for sure.
 
I guess my question is who determined that after 80 years on the planet, now all of a sudden she needs a firearm? Did she say that she wanted it or did some well meaning person think it would be a good idea for her to have it?

If she has lived out in the country for this long, do you really think she needs one now?

Scott
 
You could have her try a two fingered DA trigger pull. That's where you use the trigger fingers of both hands, one over the other, to pull the trigger.

Also a larger framed revolver will tend to have lighter DA and SA cocking.
 
A couple ideas.

A single action with a long enough hammer she can push it with the palm of her other hand (think slow motion effort involved fan technique) could work.

The shotgun might be a bit hard recoil for an older lady even in 20ga

Also, a semiauto is faster and easier to shoot. She may not be able to operate the slide but somebody could get the gun ready and then all she needs to do is pull the trigger. If it jams it's no good but auto are reliable nowadays. Just an option.
 
Sounds to me as though the first part of a solution is hands on experimentation. Beg, borrow, or rent anything that might come close to meeting the lady's needs and let her try it, preferably with live fire.

WARNING: What follows is an "I-have-read" reference. It is not based on any personal experience and is a suggestion only. I have no valid opinion here other than that it is something to try.

One direction to look may be the Beretta tip-up barrel pocket guns, touted by several writers as a solution for those unable to rack a slide. Unfortunately, those writers did not seem to find any difficulty cocking the hammer, but if the ease with which I have just cocked the hammers of a Kimber compact and a SIG-Sauer P226 by pressing the hammers into my calf is any indication, that may be more a training and practice issue than a strength issue.

To my knowledge, the tip-up barrel tops out with the .380ACP, but the mouse gun you can shoot surely beats the major caliber gun that you cannot.

It couldn't hurt to prowl through www.corneredcat.com or even contact Pax, who may have solved similar problems as an instructor.
 
If the lady in question can not exercise her hands to gain the necessary strength to operate the slide of an auto, or the double action trigger of a revolver; perhaps a solution is for her to get a semi-auto which is kept in the cocked and locked condition so that all she needs to do is thumb off the thumb safety. Or a Glock might have a trigger she could operate.

If she can operate either she is then ready to go. That could solve her low strength issues.
 
Lost Sheep, Lots of great ideas. Some I had not thought of. My brother used a hammer extention on his Marlin 30-30. Good idea.

rshanneck2002, I thought about a .410 pump shotgun. Since she could handle and operate my 870 I thought a .410 would make it a little easier to handle.

scottaschultz, I will address your comment. The mother came to me a few months ago and brought me her Burgo 32 to clean. She hadn't fired it in a few years. I cleaned it and gave it back to her and told her that she needs to get out and shoot her pistol. She tried. She got out and couldn't pull the hammer back. So, she went inside the house and got a case knife to pull the trigger with. As I have quoted in my 3rd post. She came to me after recognizing she had a problem with her inability to effectively shoot her firearm. I feel honored that she has came to me with questions and advice.

casimer, I hadn't even thought of the two fingered trigger pull:p I will experiment that with her.

Chuck Dye, I will see what pax has to say as well.

Thanks for all the constructive comments!
It is greatly appreciated!!
 
Palm Pistol

The Palm Pistol is a single-shot pistol made specifically for people in this lady's situation.

I don't think much of it myself, though. But here is the manufacturer's contact information. I don't think any have ever been commercially available.

Constitution Arms™
12 Hoffman Street
Maplewood, NJ 07040-1114
phone: 973-378-8011
mcarmel@constitutionarms.com
www.constitutionarms.com

The shooter uses the entire hand to operate the gun and the barrel sticks out from between the fingers. In 38 Special only (though 9mm was previously its intended chambering).

Lost Sheep
 
Not sure that I can suggest anything that hasn't already been covered here, but you may also want to wander over to Cornered Cat and look for the slide rack article. Might help, probably won't hurt. And I sent you a PM which basically just repeated what everyone said. ;)

Edited to add: Lost Sheep, if & when that gun gets into production, it might be a possibility in very very extreme cases. But until it does, no sense even discussing it ... :D

pax
 
The Beretta tip up .22, .25, .32, and .380 can be cocked while unloaded, safety applied, a mag inserted, and a round dropped in the chamber-making the gun ready to go in single action, simply by disengaging the safety. The slide never need be pulled back.
Or, it can be cocked, mag inserted, safety off, and the barrel tipped up-making the gun ready by simply pushing the barrel down.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top