What to get for casual 3 gun NRA Bullseye?

Z

zanemoseley

New member
I currently shoot skeet and 3 position smallbore casually at my local range. They have some casual NRA 2700 pistol matches every year and I was thinking of buying 2 guns to participate in them next year, a .22 and a .45 for the other 2 classes. The only hand gun I currently have is a 9mm "baby" Glock.

Here's what I'm looking at so far.

Ruger Mark III Target 5.5" .22lr - $351
Volquartsen Accurizing Kit - $110
Colt Gold Cup National Match .45 ACP - $1121
RCBS Rock Chucker - $137
Misc. Reloading Accessories - $100
Reloading Components - $100

This gets me to about $1900 which is about all I could afford to get into it for now however I'm not 100% stuck on these guns. I've also got a buddy that is into reloading and has some extra stuff I can borrow or buy cheap so that's why my reloading accessories budget is so low at just $100.

I picked the Ruger for a couple reasons. First I have a soft spot for them, when I was a youngster I spent hours and hours drooling over their catalog every day for months before going to bed but never had the cash to get one. Secondly the seem to have a good rap for being reliable accurate guns. I know there are more expensive match .22's out there but not aware of any better that will fit my budget.

The Gold Cup seems to be one of the "go-to" guns to start with but I'm open to suggestions here. I see a lot of praise for the SA Range Officer that is about $400 cheaper. What do you guys think. I'm kinda worried if I don't get a Gold Cup I may regret it later.

I'm really open to suggestions. I'll likely be keeping any eye out locally early next year for good deals on guns too. I realize my picks aren't necessarily "match" guns but I don't know that my match affords true match quality at this point. I know my limited handgun experience won't utilize the quality of a match gun though for some time.
 
First off, welcome to TFL!

When I was looking into shooting bullseye (got into High Power Rifle instead), it seemed many clubs would let me just shoot my .22, getting scored for the .22 portion, then just getting good trigger time for the rest. It seemed a good way to go for someone just getting into it. For one thing, there's a lot to learn that can be learned without a .45; for another, a .45 bullseye gun is a lot of money for a sport that I'm evaluating whether I'll stick with.

My .22, BTW, was a 5.5" MkIII with a VQ trigger, and I think it's an excellent choice for starting bullseye. I topped mine with an UltraDot, though, and I can highly recommend a good dot sight be added to your list - they're very popular in bullseye for a reason.

As far as your budget, your budget for accessories and components looks low to me. Others may disagree, but generally, getting a basic reloading setup (press, dies, accessories, brass cleaning stuff, etc) will run $300 - $400. I haven't price out how much it would cost to load match-grade .45 ammo, but I'm betting $100 will get you a few hundred rounds.
 
First off you need to study the CMP Rules, they are more restrictive as far as what pistols are legal then the NRA, when the rules conflict, CMP over ride the NRA. If you shoot bullseye, (or high power) you're going to want to shoot Matches to earn points toward your Dist. pistol Badge.

For example, you mentioned Gold Cup. The Series 80 Gold Cup is legal in the NRA 45 cal event, but not the CMP EIC Matches. The Series 70 Gold Cup is legal in both.

Now having said that, the CMP is contemplating relaxing their EIC Pistol Rules, I highly recommend waiting on getting a pistol until those rules are finalized.

As to 22s, Smith, High Standards pretty much ruled, but Rugers have came a long way lately. I'd look at the Mark III 22/45, it is accurate and better matches the ergonomics of the 1911s you'll use in the 45 portion.

A must have for anyone looking into getting into bulls eye pistol is the service pistol guide written by the AMU and sold through the CMP Book store (e-store), It covers everything you need in shooting Bullseye, written by the best shooters in the world,,,,,,,,,,best $6.95 you'll spend.

You might want to re-think your reloading set up. Bullseye requires a lot of shells, practice and matches. It wont take like to release the single stage press wont cut it. Also you might look into casting bullets, store bought is going to get pricy real fast. Most of us learned the hard way. Now days you can shoot cast bullets cheaper then you can 22s. and contrary what you read, you'll get more out of shooting you service gun (be it 45 or 9mm) then you will 22s if you're working toward your Distinguished Pistol Badge which if you get started you'll eventually will want to do.

Stay away from the Red Dot type sights, they may be legal in NRA but not in EIC matches. You want to learn to use iron sights until you get your DR Badge.

Regardless of what pistols you choose, DRY FIRE. Hours and hours of dry firing will go a long ways in improving your pistol shooting, and doesn't cost much, you can do it anywhere. (just be careful of your back ground in case the weird chance of a live round popping up.

Visit the CMP forums, competition section and ask Bulls eye shooters your questions.

A couple links:

CMP Rules and propose pistol rule changes:

http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/ServicePistol.htm

AMU Service Pistol Guide:

http://estore.thecmp.org/store/cata...pmax=&note1=&note2=&note3=&note4=&note5=&max=

My 2700 set up.

2700.jpg


Top: Series 70 Gold Cup, re-built to handle hard ball
Middle: S&W Model 52 38 WC gun for center fire
Bottom: High Standard Victor 22 cal.

I have started using the Ruger 22/45, its not as accurate as my Victor, but is more reliable.

Beretta 92 FS are legal in the EIC matches but take a lot of work (and expense) to get them to shoot. 45s 1911s are cheaper to get to shoot. Again wait until the CMP rules are finalized.
 
For reloading I haven't broken it down really well, I was throwing out a quick number. I looked and I think I can get the following:

Rock Chucker - $135
.45 ACP Dies - $56
Tumbler, media, sifter $60
Priming Tool - $40
500 230gr FMJ bullets $83
1lb Red Dot - $25
1000 CCI primers $35

I already have a digital scale for shot shell reloading. My buddy has a decent measure and lube pad he isn't using he'd probably let me borrow. Probalby need to add another $100 to my budget at least.
 
I would prefer the Colt over the Springfield for .45. I wasn't aware of the acceptance difference between the Series 80 Gold Cup and the pre-Series 80 -- Kraig knows his stuff on this, but I can't understand why the rules would discriminate, since they are the same pistol except for the firing pin safety.

I also agree with his suggestion about the Ruger 22/45 as opposed to the standard Mark III. The standard Ruger's grip angle is significantly different from a 1911. As primarily a 1911 shooter, I have never been comfortable shooting the Ruger Mark xxx series. I do have a 22/45 with a bull barrel and target sights, and it's plenty accurate for my old eyes.
 
If you're just thinking about it, before buying anything, if you show up at one of the matches, introduce yourself as possibly, maybe, taking part, there's a good chance you will be handed a multitude of guns to try.
 
I already have a digital scale for shot shell reloading. My buddy has a decent measure and lube pad he isn't using he'd probably let me borrow. Probalby need to add another $100 to my budget at least.
Click to expand...

Forget the lube pad and lubing. When you buy your dies make sure you get a set with a carbide sizing die.

Also make sure your crimping die is a taper crimp and not the roll crimp. 45 ACP's head space on the mouth, not the mouth. Also the taper crimp will eliminate the bulges you get when seating the bullet. You'll end up with a ring where the bottom of the bullet sets in the case do to sizing the case makes it smaller then the diameter of the bullet. The Taper crimp should take this bulge out.

45s are straight wall cases. Meaning you size and deprime, then you have to bell the cases so the bullet sets in without crushing the case. Prime, seat and crimp. CRIMPING SHOULD BE A SEPERATE STAGE THEN SEATING.

That's a lot of handling handeling for a single stage press.

Looking at the cost of you reloading list, I think you will find that you can get a lee Pro 1000 progressive press, set up for 45 ACP for $280. That will have everything you need to load 45s except for components. It will save you a ton of time. Just make sure you get the carbide sizer and taper crimp dies. Every time you crank the handle it spits out a loaded round.

http://leeprecision.com/pro-1000-45-acp.html

I don't believe you understand how much ammo you need for Bullseye, loading on a single stage press will be discouraging to say the least.
 
Well going with a 22/45 will save about $40 over the Mark III. If I drop down to a SA Range Officer I could afford to jump up to a Dillon RL550B progressive.
 
If you're not a regular Bullseye shooter, the Range Officer will do just fine for a very long time, and may be just as good as the Colt anyway. Mine does great for me and has been an outstanding value.

I do all my reloading with a hand press, haven't found the need yet for a high volume setup.
 
Starting with a .22 is a good option. The Ruger Mk II or III is a good starting choice. I don't recommend the 22/45 as good grips are critical they are not set up for changing grips. You can buy Volquartsen parts but someone who knows what they are doing can get you a 2 to 2.5 lb trigger with the stock parts. Put your money in good grips as then you are good to go. Here is a 10-shot group with my old Ruger:

RugerMKII2.jpg


When you go center fire, the Springfield is a good choice. I only ever had one Gold Cup and the Springfield out shot mine. However that is just one example. It is easier to get accuracy from wadcutters than ball ammo. Most folks end up with a separate "Ball Gun" for EIC matches as a decent wad gun will outshoot a good ball gun but YMMV. But I do think it is not a bad idea to start out shooting iron sights as going to a dot later is easy but if you start with a dot learning irons is more difficult. Good luck to you.
 
kraigwy said:
Also make sure your crimping die is a taper crimp and not the roll crimp. 45 ACP's head space on the mouth, not the mouth. Also the taper crimp will eliminate the bulges you get when seating the bullet. You'll end up with a ring where the bottom of the bullet sets in the case do to sizing the case makes it smaller then the diameter of the bullet. The Taper crimp should take this bulge out.

45s are straight wall cases. Meaning you size and deprime, then you have to bell the cases so the bullet sets in without crushing the case. Prime, seat and crimp. CRIMPING SHOULD BE A SEPERATE STAGE THEN SEATING.

That's a lot of handling handeling for a single stage press.

Looking at the cost of you reloading list, I think you will find that you can get a lee Pro 1000 progressive press, set up for 45 ACP for $280. That will have everything you need to load 45s except for components. It will save you a ton of time. Just make sure you get the carbide sizer and taper crimp dies. Every time you crank the handle it spits out a loaded round.
Click to expand...
I agree that loading enough ammo for handgun practice on a single stage press is going to get very old, very fast. But ... as much as I like the Lee Pro 1000 press, it only has three stations, which means you can't crimp as a separate operation following seating.

However, the Lee Turret Press and Classic Turret Press have four stations, allowing the use of the Lee factory crimp die in station four. The turret press doesn't spit out a round with every pull of the handle -- it takes four pulls per round -- but it's a lot faster than working in batches and then switching out dies for the next step.

I have a Lee Turret Press, a Lee Pro 1000, and two Lee Loadmasters. I do the majority of my reloading on the Turret Press.
 
Here's another vote to go with a progressive or turret press. I started out with a single stage and was (still am) very happy with it. But you don't HAVE to start out that way and then move up. If you're an 'attention to detail' guy and are willing to read the instructions and start out slow you'd be fine with a progressive and you'll save yourself a *lot* of time.

Plus you already load shot shell and haven't blown yourself up so I think you'd be fine with the Dillion you mentioned.
 
I watched some videos on the Dillon 550 and I'm sold on a progressive. I use a MEC Grabber for shotshell and the Dillon seems to operate somewhat similarly, I like how you have to hand advance the track. I've had so many instances where if I had a MEC 9000 that auto advanced I would have greatly increased my frustration.

I'm thinking the Dillon 550 and a SA Range Officer will be the way to go to stay within my budget to get started. I need to look at some Ruger Mark III's versus the 22/45 to decide on which of those I'll get. It seems as if there are supporters of both here.
 
I was also looking up bullet casting last night, it looked pretty simple and fun. Went to talked to a tire shop about wheel weights today and left with a 5 gallon bucket weighing 120 pounds for $50. Now I just need a furnace, molds, a reloader, oh yeah and a pistol too lol. Guess I can practice casting bullet till I save enough.

All joking aside I should be able to reload a 45acp round with a homemade bullet for just about 8 cents. That's cheaper than the mid-grade 22 ammo I buy.
 
I did not read all the answers here but I am gonna tell you this : There is NOTHING casual about NRA Bullseye Shooting, Period !
 
Well I have the ball rolling now. I got the Rock Chucker, lee sizing die .452, RCBS 45-201-swc mold and some other goodies. I made 700 nice looking SWC bullets this weekend.

I plan on getting started with the Rock Chucker and next year at some point upgrading to the Dillon 550b, at that point I'll use the RC for bullet sizing and rifle loading.

I'm also going back and forth between the Gold Cup and Range Officer. The RO will allow me to put the savings into buying a 550b which is going to be a huge upgrade time wise from the Rock Chucker.
 
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