WHAT THE F??? Witness feeding problems! SOS!

M

Mylhouse

New member
What's up dudes? Recently, I purchased a Witness 9mm steel full size in wonderfinish (as joe g knows). The gun shot beautifully with fmj's and SOME hollowpoints. However, I bought some factory reloaded hollowpoints and had some leftover golden sabers that I took out shooting the second time. When racking the slide on a fresh magazine, the first round (about 66% of the time) will do a nose dive and get stuck just below the feed ramp. The only thing I could do to mitigate the problem was to apply upward pressure on the bottom of the magazine while racking the slide (when snapped into the frame, the magazine has a little vertical and horizontal play, unlike a good 1911 or a Beretta for example- and this magazine was supposedly the factory 16 round mag that came with the new gun [the mag does not have any writing or markings establishing it as a EAA factory magazine]).
What I'm getting at is do y'all think there is something I can do to remedy the situation? Do I have a bunk mag? Oddly enough, it fed all rounds flawlessly when SHOOTING, it just jams most of the time when racking the slide on a fresh round or sometimes releasing the slide stop on a fresh mag. As it stands right now, I don't know if I can trust the gun for personal protection in a real defensive encounter. What do you all think? Much obliged.

P.S. Helping doesn't consist of you telling me I should have gotten a CZ75 instead... ;)
 
I had a similar problem with my witness-P compact .45...but only with a certain magazine. I bought a 10 round mag and I think I bent it slightly forcing the tenth round in before the spring was broken in. Now, sometimes when I have a full mag plus one in the chamber, the slide will stay back after the first shot. The gun only has chambering problems on that first round in the full magazine. Again, this has only happened with my 10 round mag and I have had no problems whatsoever with my standard 8 round mags. I think it is probably just a mag problem. Maybe buy a factory mag and see how it performs. I'll bet you wont have a problem. I should mention though that my 8 rounders sit tight with no movement.
 
Have you tried seating (term?) the rounds in the mag before inserting it in the gun? Like after inserting the last round, pushing the bullet down a few times or slapping the mag against your hand. My not hurt any.

Does this happen when only you trip the slide release with the slide locked back or when you retract the slide and release it or both? If its the former and not the latter, a stronger recoil spring may help.
 
Try bending the mag spring UP where it sits under the front of the mag follower to help it give the cartridge a nose up profile.
Maybe a good Wolfe mag spring might help ?
Lastly, having the mags feed lip release point checked by a good 'Smith.

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"The Gun from Down Under !"
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Wolf Springs are like what? Under 5 bucks for a mag spring?
Seems like a heck of a cheap fix to me!

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey, have I mentioned my new book? It is called:
MEN ARE FROM MARS and WOMEN JUST NEED TO DEAL WITH IT!
 
Before doing anything to your mag physically try loading one round down (IE 15 rounds in a 16 round mag). Many Browning HPs had problems when the 13 round mags were topped off but worked 100% when loaded with only 12.
 
I had a similar problem with my springfield p9 (a cz75 clone). I replaced every spring in the gun with wolff springs (including all magazine springs) and the trouble went right away. Good luck
 
Thanks, gentlemen. I've tried everything mentioned except for the Wolfe springs and trying to alter the angle of the follower. I asked my trusted smith today and he said the only options he could think of was to either modify the magazine release or the hole in the magazine itself where it interfaces with the mag release to have the mag seated higher and tighter. I forgot to ask him about price because I don't trust myself to so it-I'm more inept than Tim the Toolman Taylor. :O

By the way, of those that have Witness pistols, how are they shooting for you?
 
My first, bought new, was a pig. I don't mean a little piggy, I mean a "can't hit the barn"-type pig. My friend had acquired a TZ 75 with the 41AE conversion, and I had great results firing his. But mine s*cked so bad it was going to go away..........until I slugged the barrel. Miked .358". So off the gun went to Accurate Plating & Weaponry for a hard-fit Nowlin barrel (and a hardchrome job; thanks Bob).

After that the gun shoots like a target gun, and with chamber-checked ammo (tighest chamber on any gun I've EVER seen) it has NEVER failed, even in sub-zero weather (Vermont). Made USPSA C class shooting Minor with it.

So I bought another one, used this time. Kept this one basically stock, and it too has been 100% reliable, even when shooting at dusty matches. Not quite as accurate as the custom-barreled plated gun, but far more accurate than any 'normal' 9x19. Plus that frame/slide combo gets used to fire 9x21 (barrel and compensator), 40S&W (slide and barrel, mags), 41AE (barrel, mags).

Got a 45 Witness (with 38 Super slide and barrel), but that's another story..........

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
Mr. Eick, did you look at Witnesses before buying your Springfield? If so, how do you compare the two. Obviously you prefer the Springfield, how come? I REALLY like the CZ75 design and just trying to narrow down to one manufacturer. Thanks!

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Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
I too have a full size Witness in 9mm and five hi cap mags.

It never feed right from the factory.

This is what I had to do to get it to feed.

1.Polish the ramp.
2.Loosen the feed lips on some mags, you should be able to pull a round straight up out of the mag with some force. Grab the round by the projectile and pull back on it.
If it doesn't pull back or gets jamed in the lips the lips are two tight. If the round pops up out of the lips by it self, the lips are too loose.
3.This worked great for about the first 1000 rounds but then I had to replace the recoil spring with a Wolf 12 lb spring.

I like the witness and luckly mine is very accurate. But I feel like the gun and mags should have worked right out of the box. I also had to modify some mags with a hammer and block of wood to get them to drop free.

I too shoot ISPC style matches and the gun has now fired over a 1000 rounds without a failure, but still I think it will be awhile before I buy another.

It was a good value when I bought it a the first of the year, I paid 299 for the gun and 30 bucks each for the hi cap mags.



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The new guy.

"I'm totin, this pistol because my dang SKS won't fit in my holster"
 
MYLHOUSE, I've owned four Witness pistols in 9mm and 45ACP...Accuracy: as good as my SIG's and Wilsons. Design and Durability: Better than either of the above, with 16lb Wolff recoil springs installed in the 9mm. Trigger: Most durable ever designed (per CZ),but needs a bit of smoothing. Feeding: See JIMMIE's comments above,I have seen very few Witness mags that did'nt need the feed lips opened very slightly. Trigger: Can use some smoothing. I have a friend who regularly wins just about every Match that he enters using Witness pistols...drives the Race Gun guys nuts! GOOD SHOOTING!
 
Thanks so much guys! I have put in the stronger Wolff spring and did some jig rigging with the feed lips, and PRESTO-all STEEL "Perfection". You guys are like having a 'smith and a peanut gallery in my computer/gun room!
 
Gwinny,

I would have loved to buy another P9 instead of the Witness because the P9's are nicer finished. Unfortunately, Springfield no longer carrys the P9. I got mine dirt cheap at a gun store where no one wanted it, and I bought it because of the great trigger. Now my 10mm Witness on the other hand is not as nicely finished. It is almost parkerized where the springfield was highly polished, but in over 3000 rnds now, the witness has never once failed to feed or fire after I dumped one bad magazine. I bought 5 magazines with the gun and one got the feed lips bent in shipping, but I have never yet been able to get it bent right again.

I would, rephase that I will buy another witness 10mm, as soon as they bring out a long slide version that more adequately uses the power of the 10mm cartraige.

Gwinny, spring the $300 for a witness and a few spare mags, you will be impressed!
 
I've basically settled on the Witness since finding out theP9 isn't made anymore. I have never seen a P9 and if I wait to find one I may be gunless for quite awhile . . .
Now I have to decide the caliber! 9mm is cheap, but I don't really need (or care to pay for) hi-caps. .45 sounds cool but I haven't personally shot it and ammo is more expensive. .40 sounds like the perfect cross but again, I've never shot it myself.

Seems like .40 ammo is kind of in the middle pricewise, and closer to the .45 in performance. But it also appears that you can't get hi-cap mags for .40 so only price and performance are factors.
If you can't tell, I'm trying to talk myself into the .45 I really WANT rather than the 9mm which probably makes more sense. Any help is appreciated.

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Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
Gwinny,

If you buy a 45, 38 super or 10mm witness you get the large frame version. If you go the 40 or the 9, you get the small frame version. The point is that the large frame can take 45, 10, 38super, 40s&w, 9mm and 22 lr, where the small frame can only take the 40s&w, 9mm and 22lr slides, barrels and magazines.

Having both, I prefer the large frame because I can order a 45 slide, barrel and magazines and convert my 10mm into a 45, or if I prefer I can just order more magazines and put my 40s&w top end on my 10mm frame.

Consider this in your purchase.
pete
 
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