What should I get next: 300, 338, 9.3x64, or 416?

G

Glamdring

New member
I have a 308 [Steyr Scout] and 6.5x55 [M38 Mauser] currently so I have small bores taken care of.

Has anyone actually used both the 300 and 338 on a fair number of Elk [or bigger] size critters? If so did you observe any real difference in performance with bullets of similar construction?

I think the 338 has the most flexibility of the four above calibers, followed closely by the 9.3x64. Either one could be used on critters up to buff for hunting vs stopping or guide work. The 416 has a big edge on big dangerous game, but seems a little overboard for Elk and Moose.

Just looking for others thoughts and ideas.
 
OK, so this is gross advertising, but I'm selling a .339 Win Mag Savage soon. It shoots great, but I'm saving up for something else.
 
Never got to take it afield, but I loved my Interarms Mark X in .375H&H. I decided that if I wanted or needed a rifle more powerful than .30-'06, I'd go to the .375. In the relatively heavy rifle, recoil was managable, much less brutal than my pard's light .338Win. Plenty of good bullets in that caliber, and outstanding accuracy. Light handloads w/ 235gr bullets went <1MOA.
 
Glamdring; In the 2001 GUN GUIDE Larry Weishuhn comments that if he had to choose only one cartridge/rifle for hunting everything in North America, his first choice would be chambered for the .338 Win. Magnum. Best, J. Parker
 
Letting an Old Fart's arrogance hang out: "If the recoil don't hurt, it ain't enough gun." (Which is BS, of course.) The other is, "If you can't get close enough to use a .22, you ain't no hunter". That's a skill thing, of course.

If you develop the hunting skill, it doesn't require a bunch of gun. It does not require some sort of tack-driver. What it all means is that the human factor is a helluva lot more important than the average American realizes.

Ownership does not convey expertise. If I can get that little fact through your thick skulls :) ,my life will have been a success.

As usual, Art
 
Glamdring, I think you skipped the best (maybe 2nd best) of the medium bores - the .375 H&H. The only competition is the .340 Weatherby.

The .416 is a great caliber regardless of the flavor, but it's essentially a big bore.

The .338 is a decent caliber, good SD in either the 210 or (my fav) the 250 grain loads.

If you strike Africa, the .338/.340 rules. You mentioned buff, so the .375 (legality) would be the best bet. The ammo is also available on at least as wide a basis as .338 (Africa again) and packs a better punch.

I have killed Elk sized critters with the .375 (no .300s) and it does the job. From personal experiance, the .375 is marginal on buff.

Giz
 
IMHO the 9.3x64 shades the 375 H&H
DWM factory loads for the 9.3x64: 285 grain @ 2750; 293 grain @ 2640. Nosler offers a 286 partition and 250 Ballistic tip for the 9.3 now. And you can get 286 grain solids from Woodleigh or Barnes.

factory loads for the 375: 300 grain @ 2530 or so, and 270 grain @ 2700 or so; the Speer 285 @ 2690.

Now you can use the Federal HE load or Hornady's Heavy Mag load and get an edge but if someone did the same with the 9.3x64 I think its edge would hold.
 
Glamdring, I presume you reload.
You can load a .416 "down" with lead bullets and reduced charges to suit any game you wish. You can only load a .300 Anything Magnum "up" so far. The 375H&H is a dandy big rifle; I have every confidence in the 416.
My biggest rifle at the moment is a 35 Whelen. I don't plan to ever hunt Africa, so it's probably enough.


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Archie
 
Archie: I reload. Twist my arm a little more ;) I really do want to get a 416. But the 338 sounds so much more practical.
 
I have shot a .300 in a Rem 700, and a .338 in a Ruger M77, with a muzzle brake. I did not care for the .300, although I love Rem 700's. A muzzle brake would have probably helped.

The Ruger M77, .338 with a muzzle brake I just about fell in love with. It's the same model as my Dad's .270 -that I have taken several deer with and am thoroughly familiar with, and recoil was about the same as the .270. My only complaint about the .338 is that it isn't for sale :(
And IMHO the new Ruger Mark II's just aren't anywhere near the gun that the originals are.

FWIW,
-L
 
I've carried a 338 Mag for 25 years all over Alaska and it has never let me down. Brown Bears, Black Bears, Moose, Caribou, wolves, even deer.

But what you have confidence in, counts for much more than the number on the cartridge.

If you feel a 300 is big enough then don't waste powder and lead.
If you want the biggest gun you can carry, go with the 416.
But, I'm telling you from experience, the 338 will do it.

Several of us were having a friendly argument about the best between 300 mag and 338 mag. My partner said, "Let me settle this, order me one of each!"
You can do that.

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Wear your PFD
 
I can't afford to order both. Not in the type of gun I want, or I would do that.

suckersrus: What load(s) did you use in your 338? What was the biggest bear [wt or size] that you shot with it?

IMO the 300 isn't enough for everything, if I get a 300 then I will also end up getting a 416 or 470, but it would be awhile before I can afford that <sigh>.
 
Go with the 338. Bigger is needlessly heavy overkill in North America. (but if you want a heavy gun, go with a heavier & longer barrel on the 338 for better velocity & accuracy, rather than a heavier caliber)

This bullet for the 338, may make very, very long range shooting quite accurate (without having to go to the 50BMG).

338 dia. 300 gr. HPBT Match
Ballistic Coefficients
.768 @ 2300 fps and above
.760 between 2300 and 1800 fps
.750 @ 1800 fps and below
http://www.sierrabullets.com/bullets/index.html
 
I've shot all kinds of bullets in my 338 from 200 to 300 grains. I settled on factory Winchester Fail-Safes at (I think) 245 grains. 225 grain Hornadys were my favorite for many years. I did kill a moose with 300 grain (Barnes?) one time but he didn't seem to be any more impressed than when I used to use 200 grainers.

I've taken 2 brown bears and close to 20 Black Bears with my Ruger 77. Black Bears are easy and the Browns were fairly easy.
The toughest critter I've found to knock over is a big bull moose. This is why I like the Fail-Safes. I recovered one from the spine of a moose several years ago and it was picture-perfect, it looked like a flower with petals outstretched. The bullets I've recovered from meat look the same way!

Caribou usually go right down. Goats are tough critters and can be a lot larger than most people think. They refuse to die so require a lot of gun.

Something else I like about the 338 is when I shot smaller animals with it (wolf, deer) it caused a lot less damage than I expected.

When deer hunting on Admirality or Kodiak Islands there's always a good chance you will meet up with a big Brownie! So you don't want to get caught with a 270 in that situation.

Something I've noticed about recoil -- Ruger's stock hurts less than the Remington and Winchester stocks in the large calibers. Maybe it is the design? Also the 338 does not recoil as sharp as the 300 mag. Just my observation.

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Wear your PFD

[This message has been edited by suckersrus (edited September 09, 2000).]
 
Definitely the .338. If you aren't going to Africa, it covers the top end of all North American game and ranges quite well. For guns, I'd go with a Sako 75 at the top end of the price scale and the Ruger Stainless Laminated at the bottom end. Make sure you get open sights as a backup on the Ruger. It's worth the extra expense if your scope ever fails in the field in Bear Country.

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God made us in his own image.
Thomas Jefferson made us free.
John Browning made us equal.

Without Browning, we might not know about the other two...
 
I dont think you'll be happy to you have the 'biggest' shoulder fired weapon on the block....go with the barret 50...fubsy.
 
As to the 50 BMG I do plan to get one eventually but I don't consider that a hunting caliber.

As to "overkill" I want to hunt really big bears. I hope to hunt as many of the big cats [ie African Lion, Tiger] as I can. I don't think a 416 would feel at all like over kill if hunting a 1000+ lbs bear.

Does anyone know if you can still hunt tigers legally?
 
I'm back. BTW, I meant to say .338 WM, not .339..oh well. Anyway, where are you? Are you in the western states? That .416 is just not the gun for hunting around here, as it doesn't have the range the .30- an .33 Mags do. Also, (this is pure speculation) I think that big cats don't have very thick skin, so using a .416 is probably not necessary. It probably wouldn't open up either. A bullet passing through a big cat would likely make it really mad. You want something for bears and elk? The .338 sounds really good.
 
Go for the 338.

I have had several and just last year found the one that really works, Ruger #1S.

I have my ammo loaded by Superior Ammo in Sturgis SD. This gun shoots under an inch at 100.

The "light"loads are 180 gr. ballistic tip bullets. They perform like magic. I have taken several pigs in Texas as a test for this load and gun. My elk loads will be the 200 gr ballistic tips and/or the Federal Safari 225 Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. This is an amazing round.

I can't tell you how uch I like the 338. I am a single shot shooter and I have been so pleased with the 338's performance over the years that my next rifle is going to be a longer bbl'ed version on an 1885 High Wall action.

Elk drop like a sack of corn out to 250 yds. (longest shot so far and I don't plan to shoot much further. Goes back to what Art said earlier about hunting skill)

My previous elk kills were with non pemium ammo except for two years ago when I first shot some custom stuff. This was the 250 yd shot. Really good bull... found him out in a "park" and got as
close as we could....actually 235 yds with a laser rang finder..... Took a good solid rest and placed the x-hairs on his neck. Slow, breath controlled squeeze from the prone position and Elk just dropped flat. I did not see it all due to recoil but my buddy said he went straight down.

Bullet went into bone structure and was not recovered. It destroyed about 6" of neck(spinal column).

I must tell you, I shoot alot of ammo during the year through all my guns and this one is no exception. I shot a recorded 100+ rounds from every possible position, angle and distance.

Go with the 338 and practice.... use good ammo. If ou are interested email me and I will give you Superior's address and phone... they load anything you could ever want for the 338.

Huntschool
"Single shot shooters only shoot once"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glamdring:
As to "overkill" I want to hunt really big bears. I hope to hunt as many of the big cats [ie African Lion, Tiger] as I can. I don't think a 416 would feel at all like over kill if hunting a 1000+ lbs bear.
[/quote]

I misunderstood your orig. post. I was under the impression that this would be a North American gun. Even the big bears bow to the .338, but if you ever plan on going to Africa, you'd probably be best served with two guns. The .338 is certainly not in the same class as the 416. Therefore, why not buy both?

If you'd want a single gun to use on everything from .308 up, Go with the 375 H&H. While not the perfect caliber if there is such a thing, the 375 is a flat shooting, versatile caliber that has worldwide availability and acceptance. We've had discussions about a "3 Caliber" limit and what three calibers you'd choose. .308 and .375 came up alot because of availability on a worldwide scale. The .338 would not be a good choice outside of North America because some African Countries limit the legal caliber to a minimum of .375.
 
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