What should I choose for my first rifle?

L

logic

Inactive
HELP!!!!
I am looking for my first rifle. I have used many but never actually owned one before. I thought after extensive research I had found the perfect choice for my needs, the Bushmaster M17S. My logic was that it is a clean machine so while I definitely intend to clean it after each use, in case of an emergency I would not have to worry about malfunctions if I for some reason had to go for a week or so w/o cleaning. Ammo's readily available and relatively cheap. I really liked the bullpup design (having a full length barrel with such a short rifle, and great balance) and am confident Mr. Stoner designed it well enough not to have to
worry about it blowing up the breech in case of malfunction.

Unfortunately what I assumed to be an effective caliber seems to be a little ineffective at times. I read about how Carl Dregas had several direct hits with no kills with his AR-15, and UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES chronicled the april 1986 gunfight between the FBI and two bank robbers (Platt and Matix) Whose AR-15 was fired directly at an FBI agents heart but was stopped by his forearm.... Because of that I am thinking more towards .30-06 (was that the old NATO round or was it .308??) I like the Idea of an easily controllable round like the .223 but on the other hand I would also like to go hunting with my father so .30-06 would be better for deer and elk.

Anyway, please help me with any input.
 
The 5.56x45 mm (.223) replaced the 7.62x51 mm (.308) about 30 years ago, for the most part, though the 7.62 is still around in a more limited role.

The real question that you need to answer before you'll get a lot of comments here is:

What do you want to do with it?

That will determine a LOT of things, and will help you obtain the wanted advice. And there are plenty of knowledgeable people in here to offer it. You just have to ask the right question.
 
Good advice given above. Also you need to know the legal ramifications. If you're looking for an all around plinker/hunting/target etc is the rifle/caliber is question legal to use for the desired hunting? Many states limit the caliber and/or magazine size in hunting situations.
When you ask yourself your usage questions you need to be brutally honest with yourself. Do you really want more of a hunting firearm (enough power to do the job, etc) or a target rifle (extreme precision) or just a plinker (inexpensive to shoot). What sort of action style are you most comfortable with (single-shot, lever, bolt, semi-auto). What works great for one activity most likely will not be ideal for the others. An analogy would be an INDYCAR or TOP FUEL drag race car can get you to work but it's not the best tool for the job. So think about what you want to do. Another option would be to buy used. That way you could buy more than one, perhaps an inexpensive .22LR for plinking and general fun shooting and a bolt action for hunting. With a little patience and some looking around on your part you may even find companion pieces (.22LR and high power caliber) in the same action style with the same sights, stock etc and have a good practice/hunting combo.
 
If you are looking for a good all around caliber to start with and you want to hunt I would go with a .243 Remington ADL. It will not break the bank and the .243 has low recoil. With this rifle and chambering you can take deer or do some varmint shooting and the .243 is good for accuracy if you are just looking to punch paper and do not want to get abused by a heavier caliber. You probably already know this but the .243 is definitely not an elk round but it will stop a deer without abusing your shoulder.
 
The Bullpup bushmaster has alot of non standard parts.

Part of the attraction of the AR15 is the wide supply line of parts

Considering that ARs are likely to get banned again i would get one in the safe soon.

Its a great target gun to learn the art of riflemanship.

Then you need a 30-06 bolt rifle & a 30-30 lever action & a 22lr pump and a .308 Blazer and a scout rifle and a guide gun and a Garand and a BAR and an AK and a FAL and a flintlock and a...

dZ
 
logic, a search above in the archives will yield lots of relevant discussion threads on 6.5 Swedish, .243, 25-06, and .257 - any of which would suit your purposes for a "first rifle" which could be used for varmints and deer. For a "first rifle" I would recommend against a 30-06 or other higher power rifle since you need to adequate comfortable practice to become proficient. I would also recommend against the .223 since it does not have adequate oomph for ethical hunting of larger critters.
 
I would think about the 308.Mil surplus ammo is cheap for blasting.The caliber is legal for all american game animals(though a little light for some of them)and there are many good rifles in this caliber.FN-FAL AR-10 and many others.
Just ideas

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Bob--- Age and deceit will overcome youth and speed.
I'm old and deceitful.
 
I suggest you read Art of the Rifle by Jeff Cooper (available from Paladin Press) and consider seriously a bolt action rifle in caliber 6mm (.243) or higher. The .30-06 would be bit of a teeth rattler for a novice, but it can be handled. The .308 would probably be better. As others have pointed out, specify your needs and fit the right tool for the job. My advice is to forget high capacity stuff and go for accuracy and placement of shot the first time. The bolt action is the right tool for this objective.

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We have never been modern.
 
Logic,

Your question has already been answered well. I would just like to make an analogy. It makes as much sense to say that you want to overhaul your automobile engine and wondered which size wrench to buy as it does to say you want one rifle or for that matter one cartridge to do everything. To overhaul your automobile engine you need a box full of wrenches (among other things).

To have a rifle to do everything with you need a gun safe full. I would guess if you had a .338 for moose/elk/grizzlys/polar bears/kodiac bears, a 300 win for long range deer out west, .270 or .308 for back east white tails from a tree stand, maybe a 30-30 win for white tails in close cover and brush 22.250 with handloads for most varmits, I like a .22 hornet for crows, .22lr for squirels and a couple of shotguns with removable chokes, you'd have a tool bax that you could get by on.

But no one gun will replace all of them.
 
I would recommend the SKS or AK-47. Suprisingly enough, they are not to bad for hunting. The range limitations also make you have to get in closer, which I think makes the hunt more of a challenge.

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The Alcove

I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
Logic

A few suggestions from someone who is, at least compared to many on this board, "new" to firearms generally and even newer to rifles in particular.

1. Define the Rifle's Mission? -- What these folks are saying is that they can't tell you what you should buy until you tell them what it needs to do. And no rifle can do it all.

My suspicion is you won't know the answer to this question fully when you buy your first rifle, unless you grew up around them with your brother, father, uncle -- but if that was the case you wouldn't be asking this question.

No shame in that, even the most experienced guy in the world started on one day from the zero position. The sooner you start, the sooner you will be way down the road.

2. Buy A Used Rifle First -- Primarily because you probably don't KNOW what you really want to do with this rifle, and won't until you buy one and realize, hey, this isn't what I wanted.

And out at the range one day, you see some guy with a rifle that does seem to be what you want. Ask what it is, where he got it, what he paid.

Since you bought used yourself, you can get out of the first gun without taking a bath. Or you might hang on to it, because you now realize that although it can't do X, which is why you want gun #2, it does do Y, which gun #2 cant. And you want to do both.

3. Start With A Military Caliber -- Because it means you will be able to unload the sucker when you change your mind about it. And because you will be able to find inexpensive military surplus ammo in bulk. And practicing is more important than gizmos. Sequentially this means 30-06 (WWI and WWII), 308 (Korea and Nato) and .223 (Vietnam forward) or, of course, 7.62 x .39 the AK47 stuff.

30-06 is, for many, still the best all around caliber because it can handle everything from deer to elk and bear, depending on the weight of the bullet.

.223 is a much lighter bullet and is appropriate for ground hogs, but illegal many places for deer.

Commercial rounds in .270 Winchester and/or .243 will cover much of this same territory perfectly (better in the view of some), and there are tons of rifles available in both. Unless you reload, ammo costs will become very significant, very soon -- if you practice enuf.

4. Shoot With Iron Sights For A While. Up to a 100 yds this is not impossible. And it will teach you a lot of basics. And you don't know enuf about scopes yet to pick an appropriate one.

5. When you're ready for a scope, try to find a used Leupold. Because even if it craters the next day, you can send it to Leupold for a repair or replacement free, even if you're not the first owner.

6. Shop on gunbroker.com and/or gunsamerica.com -- both have tons of good rifles for sale and they provide a real time market price for the guns. If one person is trying to sell gun X for $800 and five other folks are ready to let it go for $650, you now know more about gun values than the guy trying to unload it for $800. If you can't find a comparable gun on the auction boards, at least check the manufacturer's site and some big ffl's site before springing for the asking price.

7. I'd suggest a bolt action first, because there are lots of them around, they're simple to use, they're reliable generally and they are great learning tools. Are they perfect for home/self defense? No, but no rifle is -- for that you want a shotgun or handgun.

8. And, yes, read. Jeff Cooper's "Art of the Rifle" a classic, Barnes "Cartridges of the World" in paperback for 24.95 (tons of info on the history of every caliber out there, both technically and practically useful), Rinker's "Understanding Firearm Ballistics" is also a great eye opener, and surprisingly readable for a fairly technical part of the game. "Rifle Magazine" is a lot better than the standard newstand gun mag. Depth in articles and even in the ads.

9. Just Do It. Nike had something going there. All the talk won't make up for experience. The idea above is to make the experience a little less expensive. Anyway, I said more than I planned. Hope some of it helps. Good luck.
 
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