What model S&W is this?
- Thread starter BerdanSS
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
S&W Military & Police, caliber .38/200 (Same as .38 S&W with heavier bullet.) from British WWII contracts.
Fairly desirable if it has not been reamed out for .38 Special.
But less availability of ammo.
Fairly desirable if it has not been reamed out for .38 Special.
But less availability of ammo.
Well it's not reamed. The seller said he is 100% sure it's .38 short. Funny thing is I have a couple boxes of it in the gun safe. It caught my eye as I scrolled past it. At first glance I thought is was a model 10. They'er asking $275 OBO and it's located just a few minuets from my house.
I know the finish isn't that nice, but I have a passionate love for military pistols. Especially revolvers. Any Idea of the age?
I know the finish isn't that nice, but I have a passionate love for military pistols. Especially revolvers. Any Idea of the age?
Without the serial number, including the "V" or "V" and "S" if present, the best that can be determined is that it was made between 1941 and the end of 1945.
Over a million of those guns were made, in .38 Special for U.S. forces and .38 S&W for our allies, and they did make a significant contribution to the war effort. After the war, many in the latter caliber were purchased as surplus and reamed to .38 Special for better sale in the U.S. That poses no real problem, except that it reduces the desirability for collectors.
Jim
Over a million of those guns were made, in .38 Special for U.S. forces and .38 S&W for our allies, and they did make a significant contribution to the war effort. After the war, many in the latter caliber were purchased as surplus and reamed to .38 Special for better sale in the U.S. That poses no real problem, except that it reduces the desirability for collectors.
Jim
Jim Watson
New member
I don't like playing Internet Price Is Right, but $250 is good.
Colloquialisms aside, note that it is NOT ".38 S&W Short", just .38 S&W.
Lots of people call it .38 short, there was even one generation in one area that called it the ".38 Regular" as opposed to the ".38 Special."
Doesn't make them right or clear.
Colloquialisms aside, note that it is NOT ".38 S&W Short", just .38 S&W.
Lots of people call it .38 short, there was even one generation in one area that called it the ".38 Regular" as opposed to the ".38 Special."
Doesn't make them right or clear.
Lol right you are jim. I should know better, much much better. Im one of those guys whos y eyes bug out when someone calls a magazine a clip. Im going to try to pick it up tomorrow.
I do love them old cartridges...38 short, 45 english and who can forget the .45 long colt? As opposed to the .45 short colt.
I do love them old cartridges...38 short, 45 english and who can forget the .45 long colt? As opposed to the .45 short colt.
Mike Irwin
Staff
The .38 Short is actually an old, OLD, Colt cartridge derived from a similar English cartridge, and originally chambered in conversions of .36 caliber cap and ball revolvers, and later adopted into the Lightning Double Action and the New Line and possibly House revolvers.
A later variation of the cartridge was introduced around World War I for Colt double action revolvers.
It was a predecessor of the .38 Long Colt and .38 Special cartridges.
Although sometimes called the .38 S&W short, the .38 S&W was a one-off evolutionary dead end given that S&W chose the .38 Long Colt as the starting point for the .38 Special.
A later variation of the cartridge was introduced around World War I for Colt double action revolvers.
It was a predecessor of the .38 Long Colt and .38 Special cartridges.
Although sometimes called the .38 S&W short, the .38 S&W was a one-off evolutionary dead end given that S&W chose the .38 Long Colt as the starting point for the .38 Special.
FWIW, S&W chose the .38 Long Colt as the base for the .38 Special because the .38 Long Colt was then (1899) the U.S. service cartridge and S&W decided that having its new M&P revolver capable of using that common cartridge was worth swallowing a little pride. There was a lot of dissatisfaction in the military with the issue Colt .38 revolver, and S&W hoped that its new revolver and more powerful cartridge would get it a military contract. Early S&W M&P's were even marked for .38 Special and U.S. Service Cartridges (they didn't call it ".38 Long Colt", of course).
As it happened, the U.S. first adopted the M1909 revolver, at which point S&W dropped the "service cartridge" marking, then the M1911 pistol; it would take 43 years and a wartime emergency before S&W got a military contract for its M&P revolver and the .38 Special cartridge.
Jim
As it happened, the U.S. first adopted the M1909 revolver, at which point S&W dropped the "service cartridge" marking, then the M1911 pistol; it would take 43 years and a wartime emergency before S&W got a military contract for its M&P revolver and the .38 Special cartridge.
Jim
Mike Irwin
Staff
"As it happened, the U.S. first adopted the M1909 revolver, at which point S&W dropped the "service cartridge" marking, then the M1911 pistol; it would take 43 years and a wartime emergency before S&W got a military contract for its M&P revolver and the .38 Special cartridge."
Uhm... possibly not.
The Army and Navy both ordered several thousand Model of 1899s chambered in .38 Long Colt for military testing and use, with some of the late ones reportedly being chambered for .38 Special.
The military also supposedly let several small contracts at various times in the 1920s and 1930s, no more than a few dozen guns at a time.
Uhm... possibly not.
The Army and Navy both ordered several thousand Model of 1899s chambered in .38 Long Colt for military testing and use, with some of the late ones reportedly being chambered for .38 Special.
The military also supposedly let several small contracts at various times in the 1920s and 1930s, no more than a few dozen guns at a time.
carguychris
New member
Look closely at the pictures...
...this is NOT your average British-contract .38/200 re-imported to the USA in the 1960s. These guns typically display numerous crown-over-BNP British commercial proofmarks and a big and ugly 0.361" / 2-1/2 TONS (IIRC) marking on the LH side of the barrel.
TheD (arrow) D A^F and FTR/MA55 markings indicate that the gun was procured by the Australian Department of Defence Forces and underwent "Factory Thorough Repair" (i.e. a total rebuild to factory standards) at the Lithgow Small Arms Factory in Lithgow, NSW, Australia in 1955. [EDIT: I read the markings incorrectly in the original photo; refer to my follow-on post.]
More info in this S&W forum thread: http://www.smithandwessonforums.com...itish-commonwealth-s-w-revolver-markings.html
This gun is more special than a run-of-the-mill British .38/200 and IMHO it appears all-original; at $250ish, my advice to you is BUY IT. Did you?
...this is NOT your average British-contract .38/200 re-imported to the USA in the 1960s. These guns typically display numerous crown-over-BNP British commercial proofmarks and a big and ugly 0.361" / 2-1/2 TONS (IIRC) marking on the LH side of the barrel.
The
More info in this S&W forum thread: http://www.smithandwessonforums.com...itish-commonwealth-s-w-revolver-markings.html
This gun is more special than a run-of-the-mill British .38/200 and IMHO it appears all-original; at $250ish, my advice to you is BUY IT. Did you?
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Driftwood Johnson
New member
Howdy
Here is the caliber marking on a 38 M&P Model of 1905 First Change that I bought recently. It shipped from S&W in July of 1906.
A pause for the COZ
New member
Dang good find. Hope I run across some thing like that.
It's funny, I've never lucked into something this good by such odd means. My wife does the facebook thing, and she is forever teasing me about this site being my "ManBook" and "GunBook" 
She comes and tells me yesterday "I found something on facebook you'll like" a new local "yard sale Group" thing for guns and knives.
Low and behold I scroll through it, and towards the bottom I find this forgotten little war horse...with not one nice comment or a question posted.
I'll never say a bad thing about facebook again
She comes and tells me yesterday "I found something on facebook you'll like" a new local "yard sale Group" thing for guns and knives. Low and behold I scroll through it, and towards the bottom I find this forgotten little war horse...with not one nice comment or a question posted.
I'll never say a bad thing about facebook again 