what makes a silencer

N

Newton24b

Moderator
does it need to be attached to the gun to qualify as equiped, or doesit merely have to be attached to the gun in anyway, like mounted to the bayonet thats currently attached to the rifle?
 
http://definitions.uslegal.com/f/firearm-silencer/

The terms "firearm silencer" and "firearm muffler" mean any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, and any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.[18 USCS § 921]
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It doesn't even have to be anywhere near a gun or even fit any known gun. If it exists and is intended to quiet the noise of a gun, or is a part of any device intended only to quiet the noise of a gun, it is a firearm silencer under the law. It doesn't even have to silence the gun; if it diminishes the noise in any way, it is a silencer.

Nor does it have to be a separate device. One way to make a silencer is to drill holes in the barrel to allow gradual gas release into some kind of sleeve or wrapping. In that case, the barrel is the silencer under the law.

Some legal "experts" on these sites contend that "silencers" do not really silence the noise of the gun and so are only "suppressors" and are therefore legal. I wouldn't like to try that argument in federal court, unless I hoped to make a getaway while everyone was laughing.

Jim
 
i remember reading about "shooting" and "muffler" boxes that were just basically a cardboard box filled with and sound dampening material weather it be capet padding or dirty socks poeple were putting on shooting benches and then discharging a weapon with the muzzle inside in order to redirect and decrease the muzzle noise.

was that considered a silencer/supresser under that federal stipulation?
 
It probably would be if someone wanted to press the issue, especially if the gun was fired that way in order to silence a gun being used to commit murder. But in such cases, the user would likely be indicted for murder or attempted murder, not possession of a silencer. As for arresting folks for having a bunch of dirty socks, I can only hope ATF doesn't decide to raid college dorms.

Jim
 
...diminishing the report of a portable firearm...
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It is my understanding that this section is interpreted to mean that nonportable items (like shooting "tunnels" with sound-proofing or other large and nonportable sound-absorbing chambers that could be shot through to muffle the report) are not silencers.

Otherwise, an indoor shooting range would be a silencer because it reduces the report of firearms fired inside it as far as the people outside it are concerned.

So, while a silencer does not have to be attached to a firearm to legally be a silencer, it does have to be attachable to a portable firearm for it to legally be a silencer.

The linked thread contains a letter from the BATF that addresses this topic.

http://www.silencertalk.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72880
 
Just for giggles.

If a suppressor is attached to a non-portable firearms is it still a suppressor, legally?

What if I had a semi-auto M249 SAW that was permanently bolted to a turret, that was also permanently bolted to the floor near a 3rd story window of my house? :)
 
...permanently bolted...
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I know your comment was mostly for humorous impact, but I don't believe bolts/screws/threads constitute permanent attachment as far as the BATF is concerned.
 
klyph3 said:
With the advent of the econo can, the ATF can now demand $200 in taxes every time you change your oil.
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Although I'm sure you were jesting, the oil filter isn't the registered component, the adapter is the registered NFA component. No adapter, no NFA involvement.
 
Although I'm sure you were jesting, the oil filter isn't the registered component
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Although I was jesting, the atf has ruled that any component of a silencer is also a silencer itself, and thus an NFA "firearm". According to the letter of the law, they CAN charge you with illegal possession of an NFA item for owning an oil filter.
"Oh but they'd never do that, that's ridiculous!"
Yeah, ok buddy, keep those blinders on tight.
 
An oil filter is intended for filtering oil, not for silencing a frearm, so it is not a silencer under the law. But if I modify one or attach one to a firearm with the intent to silence the firearm, then that oil filter becomes a silencer by MY intention, not the original manufacturer's intention.

Jim
 
Do you have a firearm with a threaded barrel, and an oil filter?
Constructive intent. Thats all they need to charge you, and the court battle will destroy your life whether you win or lose. They've done it before, they'll do it again, and it only gets worse.
 
Do threaded barrels and oil filters generally have the same thread pitch or does an adapter (the registered NFA item) have to be used as in the video you linked? If the adapter is, in and of itself, the NFA item, then the filter, by definition, isn't the silencer or a component thereof.
 
According to the letter of the law, they CAN charge you with illegal possession of an NFA item for owning an oil filter.
"Oh but they'd never do that, that's ridiculous!"
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It is ridiculous. UNLESS you happen to have either of the following:

1. An adapter that fits the oil filter threads on one end and firearm barrel threads on the other end.

2. A firearm with a barrel that has been specially modified with threads that match oil filter threads.
Do you have a firearm with a threaded barrel, and an oil filter?
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Don H is correct.

Oil filter threads don't match any of the standard threads used on firearm barrels. You would have to possess an adapter or have had one of your firearm barrels threaded with non-standard threads that match an oil filter before the ATF could gain any traction for a prosecution.
 
I know your comment was mostly for humorous impact, but I don't believe bolts/screws/threads constitute permanent attachment as far as the BATF is concerned.
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Yes, it was to be humorous. However, if the firearm was bolted, then the bolts welded so they cannot be removed, then it would be permanent. Sames goes for the turret to the floor. Or in any means to make it permanent.
 
That's my understanding as well. It takes welding, or a similar process to make something permanently attached.
 
So if you don't have the adapter, the worst they can do is thousands and thousands of dollars in legal fees. But what if you have a tap and die set and a drill press? At what point are you guilty of conspiracy to intend to evade a tax on a constitutional right?
 
Not to start a flame, but unlike most people who " quote " the constitution, I have actually read it, and unless I missed it some where, nowhere does it say anything about the right to own silencers. Klyph3 Where in the constitution is that part so I can refresh my memory:confused:
 
So if you don't have the adapter, the worst they can do is thousands and thousands of dollars in legal fees.
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If you don't have an adapter, the worst they can do is nothing. Trying to prosecute someone for owning an oil filter (or lawnmower muffler or 2 liter bottle, or any other commonly availabe non-firearm-related item that could be adapted to be a silencer) in the absence of any supporting evidence that there was intent to use it as a silencer is an absolute non-starter.

Do you have some evidence of a BATF prosecution or attempted prosecution of a person for owning an item that could be adapted for use as a silencer in a situation where there was no supporting evidence of intent.

What you're trying to claim is equivalent to saying that anyone with a 2 liter bottle and duct tape is liable to prosecution. I'm not a BATF fan, but there are practical limits to what they can get away with, and the kind of thing you're trying to pass off as fact is getting close to tinfoil hattery.
At what point are you guilty of conspiracy to intend to evade a tax...?
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Same as always. At the point that there's sufficient evidence to actually show intent and capability beyond a reasonable doubt. You're liable to be prosecuted before that threshold is reached, of course, but even then there has to be sufficient evidence to at least strongly suggest that you're trying to or clearly intend to break the law.

Now, there are things that could get you some extra attention. If you own oil filters and guns, it would be stupid if the oil filters were not ones that fit your vehicles. It would be stupid to store them in your range bag instead of with the oil and your car tools in the garage. It would be stupid to have an adapter that adapts gun barrel threads to oil filter threads. Basically don't be stupid.
 
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