What kind of targets should I expect to practice shooting in Basic training?

K

Kimio

New member
I have an M16 style AR15 and was thinking I'd try and get myself some targets that are very similar to what I may encounter while in basic training. Currently I've been practicing shooting at steel plates at 200 and 300 yards in various stances (Kneeling standing, haven't tried prone yet) and so far I'm getting better but certainly am not hitting the targets as much as I'd like to, I still shake too much.

Been also doing dry fire practices and bringing my irons up and trying to strengthen my support arm so I don't shake so much as well as doing the whole set a dime on the flash suppressor and trying to squeeze the trigger so it doesn't fall off.

Does anyone have some tips or suggestions regarding this?
 
You are over-thinking this,,,

Just get some human sized silhouette targets,,,
Draw a 6" circle in the center of the chest,,,
And shoot them from different distances.

Or, ask your recruiter what a qualification series consists of.

Good luck.

Aarond
 
if i remember right

you will have to do groupings first - you will shoot at 50 yard paper targets to get a tight shot group you will shoot 3 or 5 rounds to a paper target then make adjustments then shoot again - the big thing is it doesnt matter if you are way off just have a tight shot group at 50 yards. if you are off the bulls eye who cars that is fixable if you shoot 5 shots in a 5 inch group at 50 yards that is a different story



then you will move to silhouettes i dont remember for sure but i believe they will be at 50 - 300 meters

you will be shooting prone with sand bags as a rest we did any way

hint that i was told - keep your sights low - if you shoot low and it happens to hit dirt -gravel or the round could hit the target and the auto target will drop and then it will count as a hit

if you shoot high then nothing has a change to hit the target

hope that helps

10th mountain division 2/87th light inf. Ft Drum
 
A very good friend of mine just joined the army and finished basic and he says they also shoot at these green plastic pop up targets and they fall over when they are shot. The only problem is that most of them are badly used and he had to resort to crude but affective method of shooting the ground in front of the target causing rocks and dirt to fly up and nock over the target. He is a very good shot with a rifle and he says they did not even once teach him to use iron sights :eek:....I know right?? Say what you want but I swear that is what he said. They gave them acogs on the m4 carbins and on the saws they had eotechs but he did say that after basic and you get deployed like he is that you can put whatever optic you want on the saw which is what he is carrying right now. ( note that you have to purchase the optics yourself and they have to be approved..depends on your commander ) if you get a m4 he said that they will give a ir laser but no flashlight mounted on your gun :( you have to buy your own if you want one )

I do repeat that he clearly stated that they did not even once go over how to use iron sights. Challenge me if you want. I swear.

Goodluck bud
 
Does anyone have some tips or suggestions regarding this?
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Work on grouping.

Start up close, say 25M, and shoot at a 1" square. You should be able to keep a 1" group at 25M, if not, practice until you can. Push out to 50M until you can keep a 2" group, than 100M for 4", 200M at 8", 300M at 12". That is NOT stellar shooting by any means, but if you can do that on call consistently, than you'll have no issues.

Army guns and ammo can fluctuate between O.K. and pretty shoddy, and the cut off for ammo is 6 minutes, though I haven't had any perform THAT bad. I'd say a typical Army gun and ball ammo shoots between 2.5 to 1.5 MOA, with some a little better, some worse.

Focus on the prone and kneeling positions, both with and without support. Standing is nice, but unless you plan on standing around in the open shooting, which you shouldn't be, the only standing long shots you will take will be supported, and using some kind of cover.

A good resource to check out is the CMP program: http://www.odcmp.com/
 
Military markmanship is a no brainer... you will have no problem and if you do you will get instuction to overcome it.

Keep in mind what the military teaches is very different from what many competition shooters would agree with. A lot of different ways to get to the same result but some are opinion and some are something less....

If all else fails use a timeout card on your drill instructor and no dont go looking for a box of grid quares... just trust me on this one....
 
My daughter is in Army basic training now. They post pictures of training on facebook and all of the pictures show them using iron sites. They state that the final qualification is 40 rounds and at least 23 targets must be hit at various distances with the 40 rounds. She is at Fort Jackson south Carolina. Maybe they use different sites and firearms at other locations but all they showed in the pictures was open sites and mostly M-16's.
 
If all else fails use a timeout card on your drill instructor and no dont go looking for a box of grid quares... just trust me on this one....
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Many old solders rolled over in their graves and the rest of us rolled our eyes and said WHAT THE &%#@ when this one was invented. If your DI is an old timer do not pull this one on him... TRUST ME!
 
I do not know of a single Air Force base that qualifies at distances of more than 25 meters for 'standard' AFSCs (many bases only have 25 yard/meter qualification ranges).

And... Lackland AFB is only using 25 meter ranges for BMT.

You'll be shooting at the simulated silhouette target you see here:
Security Forces Airman qualifying at Balad AFB, Iraq.
Distance: 25 meters
Positions: Prone supported, Prone unsupported, Barricade supported (standing, leaning against a post with a cross-bar nailed to it), Kneeling supported. --No sitting. No standing.
You should be shooting an M16A2.
Iron sights only.

This article breaks down the sequence pretty well.

The target is broken into 3 parts, for the firing sequence. You'll fire 4 rounds at the bottom section of the target, reload, fire 3 rounds at one of the top sections (generally the left side), reload, and fire 3 rounds at the remaining section (generally the right side).

Below, the yellow lines show the linked 'sections' of the target. The blue numbers show the general firing order (I only had one instructor ask us to deviate from this pattern, over my entire career).

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You fire a single round at any given silhouette, for each firing sequence. You rotate your fire through the targets in a clockwise direction, generally starting at the bottom of the section.

It seems like a really easy qualification, but most people still manage to screw it up. They do one of the following:
1. Walk into the qualification with too much confidence, and can't adjust when something goes wrong.
2. Shoot some one else's target.
3. Don't sight in the POS rifle they're using (they're the biggest hunks of crap in the Air Force inventory, don't expect them to function at all, or be sighted in anywhere near the target).
4. Jerk the trigger. (Even at 25 yards, you bury yourself with poor trigger control.)
5. Shoot one of the larger silhouettes too many times (if it can't be attributed to a miss from one of the smaller silhouettes, you can't qualify).
6. Try shooting too fast. (It may be timed, but you have enough time to accurately fire about ten times as many rounds in each sequence. Don't rush it.)

Calm down. Breath. Get the sights on target. Squeeze the trigger. When a malfunction occurs, don't panic. Run the Air Force drill for a weapon stoppage (not your own version), and continue. If the weapon has failed, and requires replacement... they'll let you shoot again. Don't rush your reloads - you'll just fumble around and drop your magazine past the firing line, and lose 3 rounds. Methodical reloads are better than fast reloads.

Last, but not least...
Don't worry about the gas mask sequence. It's much easier than most people think. They get all worked up about it, and blow the whole sequence, when it's the most stable position you'll shoot in (prone supported). Focus on the sights, not the strap ripping half the hair off your head.
 

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which branch are you going in? Army, Navy, airforce, and marines all have different qualification standards.
 
all this talk of 40 round qualification is making me ill :(

if you're going Marine Corps, sight-in will be at 36 yards with iron sights, shooting at 3 miniature "dog targets" (shaped like a man's head and shoulders). 5 shot groups on the left, right, and center targets.

Table 1 Known Distance course will be at 200, 300 and 500 meters in standing, sitting, kneeling, and prone positions. You will be shooting at Alpha targets (basic black circle with scoring rings around it), Dog targets (head and shoulders shape, bottom of the example that FrankenMauser posted), and B-targets (head and full torso shape, top targets on the picture that FrankenMauser posted). Total rounds for qualification on Table 1 is between 70 and 90 rounds, i don't remember exactly. Table 2 is all on green targets and is more combat-shooting oriented, 50 rounds at 25 and 100 yards at green targets shaped like the B-targets. Total rounds expended that week will be between 300 and 350, plus lots of dry-firing so you can work on steady aim and all the fundamentals.

Then, SOI (school of Infantry) or MCT (Marine Combat Training) is where the real fun is! Table 3 and 4, shooting at night with infrared and lasers (over-rated), movement under fire (scary, dumb marines behind you are shooting past you. but nobody got hurt). AT-4 if you're the lucky one, if not a 9mm AT-4 "tracer-trainer" (i hit 7 out of 8 with no front sight, not to brag or anything... :D ) M249 Squad Automatic Weapon and M240G Medium Machine Gun, M67 grenade, a few practice grenades, hundreds of blanks, and my favorite, M203 40mm grenade launcher with 'cheeto-puff' practice rounds. i saw a Marine who'd never used one before lob one into a dumpster at 300 meters, pretty good for a weapon with a max effective range of 350.
 
The movement under fire portion in SOI scared me a bit too. haha
That and the fact you jump into prone position (pitch black) and notice part of your body is on a cactus (Camp Pendleton).

Oh the fun times as an 0311
 
First off, you have to decide if you want to play the games the army plays or do you want to learn to shoot, and fire expert scores.

That will determine how you should practice and and zero.

You have to understand that range personnel in Army Basic training, are Drill instructors, not Marksmanship Instructors. There is a heck a a lot of difference.

I've shot a lot, I've coached National Guard Rifle teams and was in charge of the Marksmanship Training (qualifications and competitions) for the Alaska National Guard for years.

I teach the old method of zeroing and qualification. Meaning I used the old Canadian bull. When used properly, you'll end up sighting your rifle in for 250 yards which will allow you to shoot center mass of all the targets from 50 to 300 yards (they use meters but its the same thing).

For the M16 you aim at the bottom of the black center, (6 O'Clock hold), adjust your sights where, using this aiming point, the group is at the top "X".

Practice this from the prone unsupported, (hasty sling). and from the prone sandbag position. Concentrate on your fundamentals, concentrate on your front sight and trigger control. Make sure the front sight is clear and sharp.

Now the DI may or may not tell you "this and that" "do this, do that, you're doing it wrong" etc etc,". DO NOT ARGUE WITH THE DI, simply say "yes drill Sargent" then go back to following my instructions.

I have taught a heck of a lot of new soldiers this method, and when they got to basic, none has ever failed to shoot Expert.

To see what I mean, put the ballistics of the M16 and the issued ammo in a ballistic program, set the zero in the program for 250 yards, and look at the drop chart to 300 yards. You'll see its never 4 inches high or 4 inches low all the way to 300 yards. Understand that the longer distance targets (100-300) yard (meter) targets are the E-Silhouette targets which are 19 X 40 inches. Aim center mass and you have lots of room to play with.

As a side not, The Army Marksmanship Unit Sniper School for Civilian LE they recommended the 223 round in a bolt gun. They teach the same method pointing out, that with a 250 zero you can make head shots to 300 yards without sight adjustments or hold over/under. It works. I used this zero on the Rifle I carried in the Counter/Sniper roll and its the same procedure I taught when teaching the rifle in to our SWAT teams.

Using the Canadian Bull, take a 6 O'Clock hold on the bull, practice until you get your three shot groups the size of the squares, centered on the top "X". The rest is up to you, FRONT SIGHT, FRONT SIGHT, FRONT SIGHT.

That is critical. I like to teach people to think of the front sight being on a lever with the trigger. As you pull the trigger (squeeze) you are actually sliding the front sight to the rear of the rifle.

Now we all know that you're not moving the front sight, but if you concentrate on squeezing the trigger in an effort to move the front sight, it will seem like you are actually pulling it back to your eye. Its not of course, but it looks like it is simply because you are concentrating on the front sight and it get clearer and sharper, which makes it look closer.

If you do the above, you'll shoot expert, I don't mean qualifying, I mean shoot expert.

Below is the Canadian bull, but if you pm me with your e-mail address, I'll send you the actual size on .pdf format that you can print out and use.

Remember, practice from the prone unsupported (with hasty sling) and off sand bags. I cannot stress enough the points of FRONT SIGHT & SMOOTH TRIGGER CONTROL.

Canadian%20Bull%20Target.jpg
 
KIMIO

I just noticed you are from Arizona. If you are anywhere near Phoenix, On the 19th of Oct they have the CMP Western Games Games. The CMP in conjuction have the CMP GSM games with will include the Small Arms Firing School.

This is the best clinic you'll ever attend for shooting the M16 series rifle, the cost is ZERO.

This it taught by the AMU, the best shooters in the world.

Here is the entry form. If you can attend, ask them about the zero procedure I mentioned.

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/matchInvRegistration.cgi?matchID=6478

Small Arms Firing Schools

The Department of Defense first conducted the Small Arms Firing Schools (SAFS) as part of the National Matches at Camp Perry in 1918. Federal law continues to require the annual conduct of Small Arms Firing Schools, which now instruct over one thousand pistol and rifle shooters a year in firearms safety and fundamental marksmanship skills. The Pistol and Rifle Schools are conducted by the U. S. Army Marksmanship Unit (USAMU) and sponsored by the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP). The Schools are open to all U. S. citizens who are over the minimum age. Firearms are provided, students must bring eye and ear protection. In the Schools, USAMU instructors, assisted by Army, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine and Navy Active, National Guard and Reserve shooting team members teach basic marksmanship techniques geared to meet the needs of new and less experienced shooters as well as shooters who want to learn new ways to improve their scores.
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With an M16 it is very easy to qualify expert (assuming your down range targets are not all shot up)

Kraigwy's advice is very good. Sight in the rifle properly for your eyes, and you will do fine. The iron sights are fully adjustable and work well if you use them properly

I was a range master at Ft Benning for awhile back in the 60's. and unfortunately, he is correct here too. The range master and his crew do not "instruct" you, the DI's do. The range masters #1 job is range safety.

Some DI's care, some don't. Some DI's know what they are doing when it comes to weapon handling, some don't...just remember, do not ever argue with a DI, even if you know he his full of it and is on an ego trip... Yes Sgt, No Sgt....no more no less.
 
For the M16 you aim at the bottom of the black center, (6 O'Clock hold), adjust your sights where, using this aiming point, the group is at the top "X".
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Is that a 2 1/2" difference at 25M between POA and POI on that target Kraig?
 
The type of targets is irrelevant, unless you can afford to build a 50-300 m pop-up target range.

Practice the fundamentals of marksmanship using an M4-type carbine and an Aimpoint CompM4 (M68 CCO) red-dot optic.

Assuming you are going to Army basic. If you're going to Marine basic, a railed M16-type rifle with a Trijicon ACOG. I dunno about the AF or Navy these days.

Marksmanship practice will not serve you as well as physical fitness, though.
 
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