What kind of load developer are you?

N

Nathan

New member
Do you set a target or goal for your loads? As in do you say....I want to make a 45 auto load for this gun that shoots best accuracy at 25 yds using A bullet, B powder, C primer and mix brass...

How do you select components? Do you select based on experience, perceived benefit, lowest cost, available locally....

Last, do you load like ~5 different powder weights and try them all in one outing, load 50 of one base load and work up, or pick a powder charge and load up a few boxes.

Are you working towards loading 1000 or so of practice rounds or groups of 50 to tinker with?
 
I can best be described as a "fun load developer". First, I choose a bullet either out of curiosity or a performance I want (SD, hunting, tin can killing, etc.). Then I'll find a powder in my manual after a little research (my manuals all have a section devoted to powders with notes as "very good in ___", and I do a bit of checking manufacturer's recommendations). Then I buy components. I usually start with a starting load and load up a specific number depending on which gun I will be using; 2 magazines full for my semi-autos or 14 if they have hi-cap magazines, two cylinders full for my revolvers, two clips for my Garand and two magazines full for my bolt guns. I want to eliminate as much as possible my marksman ship so 8 to 14 rounds will give me a better idea of what my reloads can do. I'll try more loads, usually in 1/2 grain increments until I find one that is promising and then tweek it up or down by .2 grain. I'll normally stick with one powder throughout this "study". . There are formula for finding a good load like a "ladder load" or an optimum powder charge method, but as I like reloading and have no need to hurry and find the load, I just load, shoot, record.

I keep records of all my loads, both on my computer and in a 3-ring binder and refer to them from time to time. I like reloading, and I'm in no hurry to find "The Load", so if I need 25 or 50 tries, that's OK with me. This works quite well for me.
 
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There are really three approaches to reloading:

1: Make something that goes bang as cheaply as possible, but functions.
2: Wring the last possible bit of accuracy out of your rifle.
3: Make quality ammunition that has acceptable accuracy for your application.

For some people, reloading is as much or more of the hobby than actual shooting, and there is nothing better than tinkering with different powders, and charge weights, and seating depths to try and eek out the best possible performance from your load and rifle. I am not that person.

For pistol ammo I am in the first camp. At handgun ranges I am not a good enough shot to tell the difference in the potential accuracy improvements.

For rifle ammo, I fall in the third camp. Do minimal load development to work up a load that has consistent acceptable level of accuracy. What that level is tends to vary with the rifle in question, I expect more out of a modern custom rifle than a ~75 year old wood stocked military rifle.

I used to do all the fine tuning, playing with every variable, chasing the last tenth, but after I figured out how many rounds I fired and range trips I made trying to make already good groups smaller, I stopped.
 
I used to do all the fine tuning, playing with every variable, chasing the last tenth, but after I figured out how many rounds I fired and range trips I made trying to make already good groups smaller, I stopped.
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Same here. By the time you exhaust all of the variables, you'll need a new barrel and have to start all over again............

For handgun ammo, since I use factory 124s (9mm) for carry and HD, I reload the same weight and approx bullet shape.

For shotgun, it's all about $$$$$$
 
I'll leave it to others to put a label on the process, but what I do - in general - is as follows:
I am not a match shooter. I want to be able to protect myself and harvest game out to about 200 yards. Everything I do must be considered against that set of requirements.

While I sort and store my brass by headstamp (and year if applicable), this is for inventory control and I expect my load to meet standard from any case. That's why I use the odds and ends, odd man out, one-off cases I seem to accumulate for load development. If it will shoot okay out of a menagerie of brass, I expect that it will as well from more uniform cases.

Bullets are whatever I settled on that is appropriate to the application. For paper-punching, pulled 55 gr FMJs will suffice. For more serious work, Hornady 60 gr Spire points have been used since 1980's.

Primers are whatever I can get.

Powders are limited to one or two to minimize variation and simplify supply. IM4198 and Winchester 748 mostly.

A load is developed by taking a consensus starting load from my manuals and increasing it by a fraction of a grain for each step based on the difference between starting and max load. I then load 10 rounds at each step. Often, 80 to 100 rounds will be loaded depending on how wide the spread between starting and maximum is.

At the range, I start with the lightest load and work my way up. Five rounds go through the chronograph and five are fired for accuracy. This continues until I get pressure signs or I reach maximum. I then choose the load that functioned the action of the gun and was accurate.
 
Obsessive. I take as good a quality components as I can at the best price I can find get and I want them to shoot sub 1/2 MOA.

You know the quality bullet makers, brass is RP or better, primers, CCI these days but R and W will probably do.
 
"...select components?..." Decide on the bullet weight plus cast or jacketed. Then the powder.
"...~5 different powder weights..." There is no '~'. It's a mag load or 5 of each powder load from the Start load to the Max load, going up by half a grain or sometimes a tenth depending on the powder. For example, a jacketed 230 grain bullet max load of Bullseye(I use it for everything except .41 AE.) is 5 grains. The Start load is 4.5 grains. You'd go up by .1 for that.
So you'd load 5(or a mag load) of each load which is 6 loads. 30 rounds total at 5 per. And go shooting off a solid rest at 25 yards for group only.
"...Are you working towards..." The most accurate load, out of your pistol, at 25 yards.
Absolutely do not just "pick a powder charge" and hope. Tells you nothing. Neither does the fabled 'ladder' test.
 
I am a real estate developer.

But with respect to hand loading, it depends upon the ammo's purpose. @emcon gave 5 different goals/purposes. However, his category #3 encompasses many levels of attention to detail and expectation.

I develop loads used for different applications the exact same way, but some will have different restrictions, like hunting loads need to feed from a magazine and achieve higher velocities, where precision rifle loads need not be restricted by mag length and velocity is less important. Also, i factor in component costs such that bullets intended to hit steel targets inside of 200 yards need not be 1/2 moa and do not need to cost $0.30 each in my AR's, and with bulk 62 gr bullets, there is no reason to try and wring out another 1/10 MOA accuracy. But with my competition long range rifle, I will do 100% more work, and spend more on components, to get down below 1/4 MOA.

However, I do not make "blasting" ammo. I always aim, I always try and shoot the tightest groups I can, and just standing there making a lot of noise does not interest me. Sure my AK can't do much better than 1.75 MOA, but if thats the best it will do, then that is what I expect to achieve when I shoot.
 
I am also a different loads for different purposes loader. I can kick out 20 hunting loads in 20 minutes and they will be better than anything you can get off the shelf. On my iron sight plinking AR ammo loading is done on a progressive. Once I am set up and ready I do over 100 rounds per hour. On the other extreme a match round might go through 2 cleanings, 2 sizings, 2 annealings and some neck work before it is shot. Bullets are sorted base to ogive and all rounds are checked for concentric alignment of less than .001 before they hit the ammo box.
 
I am a hunter with personal limits on the range I shoot. I reject the premise of "minute of deer" for accuracy and expect my rifles to shoot under MOA at any range I will shoot at. I select bullets based on my personal testing and experience in the field. I select powders based on suitability for cartridge and bullet weight but prefer double based powders. Primers are either CCI or WW because they have given the best performance for me over many years of reloading.
When working up a load for my rifles I start at minimum listed load or slightly above and load five rounds in each powder charge between start and maximum load. I work in graduations of no more than 1/2 grain steps to find the range of powder that holds the tightest groups. I then use powder steps of 0.1 grain increments to narrow the best load. When I find the load that produces small groups I continue to test that load over a range of months to make sure it is consistently accurate. After I accept the load as accurate I run 20 rounds over the chronograph at different times and trips to the range. These are the numbers I use to predict bullet path at different ranges and then I shoot at the different ranges to make up a dope sheet for that load.
My group testing uses 5 targets. A base target that stays on the backing and four targets placed accurately over the base target for each five shot group. That provides 4 targets with 5 shot groups and the base target that records the 20 shot aggregate group for the load. The aggregate group is what I use for the "group size" for that load. I fully expect a 20 round aggregate group under 1 MOA for all my rifles shooting handloaded cartridges.
 
I'm a bit of a lazy developer. I start with the minimum load and if I get good accuracy from it, most of the time I won't develop it further. If the pressure signs look either really low or too hot, I'll address that. I'm more into good accuracy than the hottest load.

For example I loaded up some 180g Partition bullets for elk hunting with my .30-06, the minimum load with 4350 gave me 3/4" groups. I don't think an elk would notice if I could get another 25 to 50 FPS out of that load...

Tony
 
Do you set a target or goal for your loads?
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Of course. Otherwise, there is no endpoint.

As in do you say....I want to make a 45 auto load for this gun that shoots best accuracy at 25 yds using A bullet, B powder, C primer and mix brass...
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Kind of. I would say something like: I want these 200gn LSWC's (45 ACP) to be in the 850 f/s range using W231; which should be about right for the lead hardness to run clean and accurate. (This work up example was completed in 1986; and I'm still using the recipe.)

Another example: (357 Mag) I want these 158gn JHP's to deliver max velocity, but must be balanced with a propellant fast enough to keep muzzle flash and recoil down, because they're going to be used in a 3" bbl revolver.

How do you select components?
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I start with the bullet. That can be based on availability. I then determine the purpose (as in above). And then select the fastest propellant that can - at least potentially - accomplish this task. As for primers, I choose CCI because they have never failed me. The exception is with 38 Special I choose Winchester because they're a touch softer and work better in my race revolver (CCI's fail to ignite about 0.5% of the time in my trigger-jobbed S&W Model 67.)

Last, do you load like ~5 different powder weights and try them all in one outing, load 50 of one base load and work up, or pick a powder charge and load up a few boxes.
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I live close to my range. So I only usually only load three charge weights per session. I don't like pulling bullets. With the range so close, I have the luxury of not needing to go too far out on a limb.

At first, the number of rounds per charge weight may be as few as five; but usually ten. As I zero in on my goal, I increase the number or rounds loaded per charge weight. By the time I'm "there," I may load 30 to 50 for the final test. (This is for pistol.)

Are you working towards loading 1000 or so of practice rounds or groups of 50 to tinker with?
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Not sure I understand this question. I've been around long enough to not put all my eggs in one basket. People's (mine, anyway) shooting styles change; ammunition may change accordingly. Talking about post-test "set" load recipes, other than a few "pet loads" that I have been using for years (like the above mentioned 200 LSWC loading), I generally keep the production quantities to a couple hundred at a time. Shortly after I load 1000 rounds of a load recipe is about the time I decide I like something else better :p. Experience speaking.
 
Interesting comments....

I should say what I do.....I'll explain based on my last round of reloading. That was a 5.56 load for my ar15 carbine....0-100yd practice ammo with Xtreme 55's I bought cheap...I was thinking under 2 moa at 50 yd test range due to the red dot.

So, components.....55 he Xtremes because they were cheap and I had 2000. Powder....cfe223 because it meters well and gave good accuracy last time. Primers....cci #41's because I had them, they worked well enough last time and they reduce slam fire potential. Cases...I have about 2000 mixed brass....I fl sized to fit, trimmed by WFT, swaged primer pockets and touched up on a primer pocket uniformed...

I split the charge range 5 ways and loaded up 5 rounds of 10 test loads. First I fired each for a quick velocity and pressure check. Then with all ok, I shot 5 groups of 5 at 50 yes round robin.

25.2 grns won, so I cut the difference between charges in half and loaded 5 more groups of 5 and 25.2 gr was best. This met my target of under 2 MOA. I think it was under 1 MOA, so I set that as the production load.

I then loaded 1500 rounds. Next I will confirm velocity, add to my notes and use that as practice ammo.

Next I'm onto 300 WSM....looking for under 1 moa at 300 yds. I think I will begin testing at 100 yds!
 
I have got to say, most of my loads were recommended by others. My load development for my 30-30 was extensive. I shot hundreds of rounds and every powder I had, with 170 grain bullets. I ended up with a load that worked well in my rifle, can't say it will work for anyone else.

This is the JM 30-30 I own

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This was a recommended load, it shot fine at 200 yards

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This is my best load, developed with N135. First couple of shots reflect figuring out hold and aimpoint.

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Once dialed in, this will hold the ten ring at 200 yards.

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I greased the cases so they would not be stretched on the first firing. Shot great.

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Factory ammunition took a number of shots to settle in. This is ammunition I purchased in the mid 1990's and needed to be shot up. Shot to the same point of impact as my reloads once the barrel fouled in. No idea why.

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Very seldom have I ever spent the time and effort figuring out a load, such as I have with the 30-30. I have a number of friends who are National Champions in their fields, and it is just simpler to ask them what to use. Then I give their load a try, plus or minus a couple of grains of powder.

For the 30-06, the classic loads were developed decades before I got into target shooting. I have found a 165/168/175 grain bullet with 47.0 grs IMR 4895 or 55.0 IMR 4350 will produce excellent accuracy all the way to 600 yards. The IMR load shoots exceptionally well in Garands, is appropriate for the gas system, and was widely used by Garand competitors. The IMR 4350 load was used by bolt gunners as it is not appropriate for gas guns. Works well in my bolt guns. I don't see a reason to duplicate work others have done. As wise men have said "Don't reinvent the wheel".

I want safe and reliable ammunition. I am interested in the best accuracy I can get for the weapon and for me. I want perfect function, which is one reason I am not interested in pushing pressures. Pressure is not your friend. Maximum loads will always bite you in the ass, it just takes time and opportunity. I know Americans want the most horsepower, the fastest bullets, etc, etc, but, shoot enough and you will find that the mostest load causes the mostest problems.
 
Sometimes I just want a load that functions, other times Load development is never ending.

I don't need super accurate ammo for a play day with machine guns for folks that just want to have fun.

Other times I am just trying to make the one hole a smaller hole that more bullets pass through.
 
Do you set a target or goal for your loads? As in do you say....I want to make a 45 auto load for this gun that shoots best accuracy at 25 yds using A bullet, B powder, C primer and mix brass...

How do you select components? Do you select based on experience, perceived benefit, lowest cost, available locally....

Last, do you load like ~5 different powder weights and try them all in one outing, load 50 of one base load and work up
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YES all of the above .
 
I only load for pistols as that is all I own so my needs will differ then most.

Shooting pistols with short barrels also reduces my needs as I'm not hunting and trying to make 50/100yd shots. 25yds is pushing it for me.

I also do not own or have use of a chronograph. The ranges I shoot at are not equipped to allow people to set up one either.

I base my loads on components that are readily available from local merchants meaning powders, primers and bullets. Why because the volume I shoot and use does not warrant me buying 10k primers or 8lbs of powder to reduce the impact of hazmat fees to have things shipped.

Also most of my shooting is punching holes in paper so I am not a power hungry max velocity consumer.

New loads I will normally load 15/20 at the starting level just to check function. Will they cycle the gun, will they feed and eject, will they lock the slide back on the last round. Then I look at the bunch as a whole and judge accuracy.

Being that these are pistol rounds I work up by .1gr powder and normally load about 25 rounds to again check function but more to compare for accuracy and how they feel. By doing this I have found that most loads are most comfortable and accurate at mid levels for my 9mm and 380acp loads.

Also all testing is done from a standing position with a 2 handed grip at 7 to 10 yards which to me would be the most real world use of a handgun. By doing this I have been able to find the most accurate and controllable round for me and my guns.

I don't care what the most accurate load is on a bench using sandbags or a rest, If I'm attacked in my home I'll be standing with the gun in my hand and I want to know how it and I are going to react together.
 
I don't care what the most accurate load is on a bench using sandbags or a rest, If I'm attacked in my home I'll be standing with the gun in my hand and I want to know how it and I are going to react together
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Interesting.....I actually do not handload my self defense rounds. I just test some different brands/bullets I like the terminal perfomance of and see if they shoot well in my gun, and then buy 100 or so and shoot a few every few months.

Then I find a cheap bullet of the same weight, with a very close POI to the self defense round, load it to similar power, and make several thousand to practice with.

In other words, with hand guns I shoot paper or steel with handloads and protect me and the family with Federal hydrashocks
 
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