Chipperman
New member
Is the M14/M1A the oldest military .308 or were there others before them?
What is the "original" military .308?
- Thread starter Chipperman
- Start date
According to this history, http://www.wwa.com/~dvelleux/armyrifl.html (click on M14 at the bottom), the first mass produced military 7.62x51 was the FAL which was adopted by the British in 1953. At this point the M14 was only in the development stage but the ammunition was NATO standard because the US insisted on it.
Target Shooter
New member
Not sure what rifle was the first to use the .308 cartridge, but it's origin began after WWI.
I know the M-60 Machine Gun was chambered in 7.62X51 (.308) but that was in 1950.
Good Question,
TS
I know the M-60 Machine Gun was chambered in 7.62X51 (.308) but that was in 1950.
Good Question,
TS
Chipperman
New member
So the FAL was actually before the M14. I thought it was later, like the G3.
Interesting history site, DaveH.
Thanks for the link.
Interesting history site, DaveH.
Thanks for the link.
Freedom in theSkies
New member
The FN FAL was widely used by British Commonwealth countries and they went so far as to build Enfield (#5s, I think) rifles in this caliber.
Being picky, but the M14 was never chambered for the ".308 (Winchester)". The cartridge, through its "T" numbering was always called the short .30 caliber; when it was formally adopted by NATO, it became the 7.62 NATO, or 7.62x51 in commercial metric terminology. The .308 Winchester is a commercial cartridge. While the two cartridges are interchangeable in most applications, they are not identical, notably because the .308 Winchester has a higher working standard pressure than the 7.62 NATO. This can cause problems in some rifles chambered or re-chambered for the 7.62 NATO.
Jim
Jim
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
In the early days of the .308 Winchester, I specifically remember reading factory data that pressures were 53,000 psi (not CUP). This was when it was common that factory pressures for the .30-'06 were given as 47,000 psi.
My 1992 Hodgdon reloading data book sez the max pressures for Match Target loads ("7.62MM NATO") are around 47,000 CUP to 40,000 CUP.
Somebody might know the relationship between psi and CUP, although I have read that it is "not an exact relationship"--which gives me a case of the "Duh?"
Art
My 1992 Hodgdon reloading data book sez the max pressures for Match Target loads ("7.62MM NATO") are around 47,000 CUP to 40,000 CUP.
Somebody might know the relationship between psi and CUP, although I have read that it is "not an exact relationship"--which gives me a case of the "Duh?"
Art
I bought a NEF in 308 Win thinking it would be cheap to shoot
using surplus. WRONG! The 7.62 won't work in the NEF. It will chamber and fire perfectly but will not extract. Evidently the casing in the 7.62 is larger in some respect, so there is a difference. And I've tried more than one brand of the surplus. Now I've got 199 rounds of Barnaul I can't use.
using surplus. WRONG! The 7.62 won't work in the NEF. It will chamber and fire perfectly but will not extract. Evidently the casing in the 7.62 is larger in some respect, so there is a difference. And I've tried more than one brand of the surplus. Now I've got 199 rounds of Barnaul I can't use.
Larry,
Like I said, I've tried more than one brand of surplus with the same results. Maybe it's the laquer, I don't really know. I don't think it's the spring, because the surplus fits tight enough after firing that it has to be knocked out from the muzzle, where as the factory ammo extracts flawlessly every time. Wish I could get it figured out cause I really like the looks of this Barnaul softpoints. I even had my smith ship it back to the company telling them it wouldn't extract. Came back with the very same problem.
Like I said, I've tried more than one brand of surplus with the same results. Maybe it's the laquer, I don't really know. I don't think it's the spring, because the surplus fits tight enough after firing that it has to be knocked out from the muzzle, where as the factory ammo extracts flawlessly every time. Wish I could get it figured out cause I really like the looks of this Barnaul softpoints. I even had my smith ship it back to the company telling them it wouldn't extract. Came back with the very same problem.