What is the future of America going to look like?

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Jack 99

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I've been posting some pretty pessimistic stuff here and other places of late and I know some of you have come close to labeling me a traitor and some of you agree with me.

I know I'm on to something because even CMOS admits we've turned a corner. This guy was sending me private email 6 months ago that read like a high school football team pep talk. Now he's almost as pessimistic as me.

Just wondering where you all think this country is headed. I'm interested because "we" (freedom lovers) are such a dissipated group that there's generally no concensus among us. If we can come to some concensus that "we're screwed," that's probably an important development.

I know some feel we're winning, politically speaking, but from where I sit the victories are small and the losses are enormous. The handwriting is on the wall and our best chance is to slow the train down by electing a Prez like Bush, but its not going to stop the train by any means. Socialism becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy in the end.

Besides, Gore is tapping into a solid, proven strategy for political success. He's taking credit for sunshine and ice cream and distancing himself from the "unpleasantness" and nobody in the mainstream media will call him on it. He's simultaneously promising to fix any problem you've got because, after all, "he cares deeply." This crap sells like ice water in Hell, believe it or not.

For more info on the Psychology behind all of America's problems, I suggest you read some of Robert Kocher's work here:

http://www.zolatimes.com/writers/kocher.html

Anyway, were looking at an election that will almost surely feature a choice between lesser of evils. Realistically, a Keyes or Libertarian is not going to be sitting in the Oval Office (Kocher has some interesting commentary on why).

Clinton has now set the precedent for future abuses of Exec Power and, as History will bear out, that power abuse will only increase over time regardless of who's elected. We're also looking at an election where voters receiving entitlements, or those who will soon be getting a gubmint check of some kind, will probably be the majority. If you think that entitlement policy doesn't have any affect on the outcome of elections you're deluding yourself. In the end, people vote in thier own self interests.

A lot of people have also missed the importance of the potential disbarment of Clintoon. If he retains his license to practice law then we've reached a point of relativism within the legal system that creates a class above and beyond the law and that spells the end of Rule of Law as we know it. It also makes the rest of us peasants.

There seems to be nowhere else to go and no way to stop the madness short of a Revolution and that's just not a realistic option.

What do you think is going to happen in the next few years? Am I just the most pessimistic schmuck on Earth?

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"Put a rifle in the hands of a Subject, and he immediately becomes a Citizen." -- Jeff Cooper

"The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty - and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies." -- H.L. Mencken, February 12, 1923, Baltimore Evening Sun

"If God had not wanted them to be sheared, he would not have made them sheep." -- Bad guy from the Magnificent Seven.
 
Jack...

Take a look around you kiddo, you live in California. No wonder why you're so down.

Since I'm within the television/radio signal of a major U.S. city, I unfortuneately can tap into what the major news links are attempting to pull over on Americans. This propaganda is just that. Turn your television/radio OFF and ignore the constant humm of the leftist message.

Stick to your patriotic and religous beliefs, and you'll be fine. Instead of submitting to the humm, read a good book instead. Get your very own copy of the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Federalist papers, and study them. You'll need to be familiar with how we can return our great country back to what it once was. We don't need anyone making up some new rule book.

And, oh by the way, you're not alone out there my friend. Shoulder to shoulder, we're in this together.
 
Read the history of the USSR in the 1920's and 1930's. That will give you an idea. BTW, the USSR always had a great constitution, all full of rights and freedom.

Jim
 
I am an optimist. I intend to be in the part of USA which will do like the Duchy of Finland did in 1919. Maybe Arizona...
 
1. I think we tend to talk ourselves into holes. While _some_ nasty things have happened (Kalifornia primarily), not much has really changed in most places. Sure, we can't get pre-ban AR-15s, and must submit to an "instant check", and a few other practical inconveniences. In most places, one can _still_ walk into a K-Mart (or some convenient gunstore) with a day or two's wages and walk out 10 minutes later with enough firepower to make the Founding Fathers drool in extreme jealousy and make the Redcoats turn tail fast. We often forget what we _do_ have, moaning about the loss of the 2nd Amendment while our safes are legally bursting with arms and ammo.

2. Now that most of you are seething in rage at the above statement, I'll heartily admit that the camel's nose is indeed under the tent. Many are obviously trying to destroy our rights, and they've really learned from the "boiled frog" anecdote. Rather than a frontal assault, they're quietly laying seige by cutting off the supply lines.

3. What will America look like? Well, the US has nearly ripped itself apart once (Civil War) and has committed numerous atrocities against its own (Waco, Japanese Internment Camps)...and that's in a mere 200+ years. Other than a few highly isolated small-scale incidents, we've really been pretty peaceful for a while. Any review of history indicates that such peace does not last very long, and often the longer the peace the greater the subsequent turmoil.

4. With people getting worked into a frenzy over certain rights, some are going to boil over. It will probably start with some unhinged loons - they're the closest to boiling to begin with - who will decide that the US sufficiently matches the subject of the Declaration of Independence and proceed to follow Thomas Jefferson's (?) comment about watering trees. As the screws tighten and rights are lost, the ones boiling over will be less loony and more reasonable...and there will be more of them. We will, indeed, live in interesting times.

5. Jack99, relax. Go for a walk and look around you. Spend a few hours at the range or in the fields. Touch off a hundred rounds, and note the lack of subsequent time in Greybar Hotel. Think of those countries where such acts are merely a dream. Keep a piece on your hip or in your car continously for a month (as legal) and note the freedom therein. Write your congresscritter. Vote. And yes, keep your powder dry.
 
I have been impressed with reseliency of Americans (writings of Julia Cochrane helped a lot, too - look up deja profiles for julie_cochrane@my-deja.com and julia.cochrane@iint.com ). Locals, or at least some locals, have a healthy disdain for controlling or mandating authorities of any sort.

As long as we keep kids from getting brainwashed early on, we will pull through.

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Oleg "cornered rat" Volk (JPFO,NRA)

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
IMHO, we will lose ***IF*** the present trends continue. By this, I mean the vast majority of gun owners continuing to sit on their asses and not lifting a finger. How much effort does it take to join the NRA or vote?

Don't get me wrong--its not over by a long shot, but its not looking very good. Some of us claim victory when we repel the majority of attacks against our rights--but is this really a victory? When was the last time a gun control law was repealed? Surely and steadily they are gaining ground. They are driving the sheeple against us with their media propaganda machine. They are using the schools to turn our children against us. Victory? Others of us claim victory when the government "allows" us to bear arms with a CCW permit. Some victory.

I can only speak for myself, but I'll never give up, never, no matter what laws they pass.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jack 99:
The handwriting is on the wall and our best chance is to slow the train down by electing a Prez like Bush, but its not going to stop the train by any means. Socialism becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy in the end.
[/quote]

Our best chance is _not_ to slow the train down by electing a president like Bush. The lesser of two evils is still evil. What we need to do is vote for the candidates we really want to win, and not for candidates we don't like but whom we think might have a chance. I encounter a lot of people on the 'net who say they like the Libertarians but don't want to vote for them because they won't win. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If everyone who liked the Libertarians _did_ vote for them, there'd be more in office...and there are currently 276 elected Libertarians holding office in the U.S. -- more than twice the number of all other minor parties combined. Libertarians _are_ slowly gaining ground.

Also, and perhaps most important: Libertarian candidates don't _have_ to win to help slow the slide toward total tyranny. If Libertarians just start making a strong enough showing, the Demopublicans will try to adopt some of their positions, or at least moderate their own tendencies toward socialism.

Don't believe those who tell you that a vote for the Libertarians encourages the Democrats. The Democrats -- and the Republicans too -- are terrified of every vote a Libertarian candidate gets. Good.


[This message has been edited by David Roberson (edited February 16, 2000).]
 
I can see...
1.Governmental control over mass media.
2.Governmental promotion of immorality.
3.Government control over education.
4.A taxation level exceeding 30%.
5.Our real money exchanged for paper.
6.Swarms of bureacrats and legislators making un-Constitutional rules, laws, and regulations.
7.Government permission needed to purchase firearms.
8.The murder of innocent citizens by the government.
Oh, but you meant in the Future...
11xray

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Audemus jura nostra defendere
 
In the next five years gun registration with a national picture ID will be a reality.

I'm in the last third of my life and I honestly think that we'll have another civil war before it ends.
 
Jack99,

I must say that our future, to me, looks bleak. I try to be positive, but when you look around you at all the stuff going on it can be pretty depressing, as 11xRay put it.

I think that it will eventually boil down to another war. I for one am not going to stand by and let the gubmint take away my right to school my own children, to own my guns, and to pretty much do my own thing w/o Big Brother breathing down my neck. Our freedoms are ever faster being stripped away from us and it scares me.

Despite what people may say about Keyes not standing a chance at getting the Republican nomination, I will still vote for him in the TX primary. What David R said is true. If we don't vote for the Libertarians or other non-main-stream candidates, of course they won't stand a chance of getting elected into office! It's a vicious cycle...

We, as a people must start giving a d@mn about what goes on in our country, I am really tired of fence sitters! ( I'm not referring to anyone on TFL, BTW).

So, all in all, I think our future doesn't look good, and I'm not really a pessimist. But, I believe that there is One who is in ultimate control over our world, and I hope (and pray) that He will preserve us and our great country.

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"Liberty or death, What we so proudly hail... Once you provoke Her, rattling of Her tail- Never begins it, NEVER- But once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!
 
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness-- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the consent of the Governed, that whenerver any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to Alter or abolish it..."
I don't think any of us could have said it any better. Any serious student of history knows that only 1/3rd of the population actually supported the American Revolution, and they decided to go to war over a 3% tariff, and GUN CONTROL. All the other stuff was just icing on the cake. Neither can any serious student of history deny the fact that a small population of a small, and backwards country recently defeated the second most powerful nation on the face of the earth using antiquated weapons at first, and having only a strong belief in God, and a motivation to succeed. I'm speaking of Afganistan, but you can insert Viet-nam or any of the other small countries that would not be slaves.
I would NEVER advocate the violent overthrow of the just and CONSTITUTIONAL government of the United States. I just thought a little optimism was due in this gloomy post! ;)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jack 99:
Socialism becomes its own self-fulfilling prophecy in the end.[/quote]

What do you mean? Socialism is inevitable? Just because the democrats have had the oval office for a while doesn't mean we're all heading down a slippery slope into socialism. The entire world is moving away from socialism. Europe, Latin America, Asia.... Even our rich friends in Western Europe and Japan are moving away from government intervention.

As for Clinton, he's rapidly becoming a footnote in history. McCain could restore respectability to the office of president.

And as for the USSR in the 20's and 30's, that was a completely different story. At no time was socialism inevitable. In the early 20's, during the period of the "New Economic Policy" they were actually moving away from socialism. Stalin had to reduce the population and the Party to a fraction in order to force compliance. I'm sure that couldn't have happened had the USSR had a Second Amendment and constitution based on a rule of law tradition (and many of other things, like institutional legitimacy). We all know what happened to the USSR in the end. The trend was ultimately in the opposite direction of socialism.

Inflation may be a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I certainly don't think socialism is.

Of course, you're welcome to disagree....
 
Bezdelnik,
I would beg to differ. The trend is towards more government not less. There are millions and millions currently on the government payroll. Social security, Welfare, Postal workers, civil service, state, county, city, municipal employees, and the military. How many of these, the largest single voting block, will vote away their jobs? My guess is none.Therefore, the trend is to move towards more government, not less. As it stands now, we are a socialist nation, with different names. The state has ownership of all property that you are obligated to pay a yearly rent on (property taxes). The state provides health care to all (yes, the taxpayer pays for indigent health care). The state provides for retirement, the state has first dibs on the fruits of your labor (therefore you technically work for the state), the state has a virtual monopoly on education, and the state uses force to enforce it's rules even to the point of killing men, women and children over a $200.00 tax matter. What exactly do you call it when the state owns everything, and through one system or another controls every- body? I would call it socialism by strict definition.
 
I think we all talk a big game, but few of us will actively resist against the slow gov't encroachment on our god-given rights. That being said, if you disconnect yourself from the news and net for a while, you'll feel tons better :). Just because someone in the media says something, it doesn't mean it will happen or that the rest of the country believes it. I have to keep telling myself that ;).
 
I found it very disturbing that Russia had no gun control laws of any sort until 1917 (at least I could find NO mention of any in all of my research). In theory, a lot more ded commies should have turned up than actually did...
 
Actually, if you look up 'fascism' in the dictionary, you may begin to consider that socialism isn't necessarily the course we are on.

Government ownership isn't the problem these days - they don't need to own everything. They just want to control most of it. For our own good, of course.

And fascistic nationalism? Perhaps we'll see a bizarre form of nationalism actually represented by the UN / NATO and other supra-national entities.

I share the concern. Probably a bit overstated because the RKBA is under constant attack.

One more point. As a friend noted the other day, and was noted above ... the freedom movement has always been a minority movement. That shouldn't be a surprise, and that shouldn't discourage us.

Regards from AZ
 
Quite a big question Jack99.

It's hard to explain how much I have learned over the past few years. Those of you who know me from AR15.com know well that I am a hard core, dedicated fighter for the preservation of the Constitution. I'll never stop that effort.

However, several months ago I realized that we have already turned the corner to which here is no return and to which no good will come. The Constitution will not survive, as we know it, for my children. I say this for good reason, not out of panic and because of a few events that have taken place in the last 6 months or so.

Up until recently, the mere public mention of "gun registration" and "collective right" regarding the 2nd (as opposed to individual right) would have been political suicide.

No more.

Very recently, not only has the President publically spoken of gun registration, on national TV, but others such as Senator Fienstien publically speak that the Constitution does not guarantee an individual's right to "keep and bear arms".
Heck, Kalifornia now has billboards "advertising" this false notion - to which our young will absorb.

You see, the fact that the liberals are speaking out publicly means that they feel the country is ready to hear and begin accepting it. THAT IS THE TURNING POINT.

And sad to say, most folks will begin to believe it. They teach it to our children in "our" public schools, in movies, on TV, etc. Look at some of your own schools. I've seen the posts myself from some of you here - the school is teaching your child that "guns are bad", "hunting is bad", "government is good", "the 2nd does not give individuals the right", etc. Some of you have also stated that 9 out of 10 students in you child's (or your own) class are anti-gun.

Extrapolate this trend out to 2 more generations and what will we have left? I realized that this trend is indeed unavoidable. We can slow it, but society is a huge freight train with lots of momentum. it doesn't just turn a sharp "right" turn.

This further reinforces the phrase, The IQ of the planet is a constant, the population is increasing."

I know this may sound quite gloomy. And well, it would be at that. But it is realistic and true to form. It's a sad situation but we are the minority - those of us who truly understand the Constitution. I'd be willing to bet that less than 10% of the population knows the real meaning and purpose of the Bill of Rights. Agree?

Keep the fight. Get em while you can.

CMOS

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GOA, TSRA, LEAA, NRA, SAF and I vote!
 
A refugee here, washed-up on TFL beach from the sinking AR15.com forums.

Like many others, I believe the USA as we know it will break apart in the next 25 years, maybe much sooner. It sounds unbelievable, but who would have thought the Russian Soviet empire would crumble? Canada is well on the way to dissolution now.

The USA is a true empire now, with an over-powerful and over-centralized federal government attempting to govern a vast area peopled with citizens of very different ethnic and political persuasions.

Those persuasions are coalescing into discrete areas - regions, states, city-states - that get very little satisfaction now from the central government in Washington.

Gun-control laws and gun rights curtailments are the leading edge of this phenomenon. What seems reasonable to most voters in California or New York City would be totally unacceptable in Idaho or Arizona.

end of rant for now

And - hello again, Oleg! You know me from some time ago as the Arizona guy with the veiled chameleon photos who liked your website.

[This message has been edited by Mister G (edited February 17, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Mister G (edited February 17, 2000).]
 
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