What is being said here/part 2: Funinsun

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funinsun

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Wow! Thread got closed down before I could reply!! Although I am dissapionted that the thread went the way it did, I would still like a chance to reply:

First I was suprised that nobody really flamed me. Second I was suprised how nasty the attitude towards cops got.
Little general background-I come from a long line of State Cops-my Father being the last and getting out after a long exemplary career due to the hightened PC BS towards the criminals. I served in the military for 4 yrs then went to work for the Dept. of. Defnse. in a civilian enforcement capicity. I am a die hard patriot and gun-lover. I make no excuses for my beleifs and am damn proud to be serving my country. Am I a little biased towards the Govt.? yes. Do I beleive in all they do-no. Oleg your piont was well taken and very appreciated. I can understand what you are saying there. I am not going to go into all the other BS that was one that thread but everybody can have their views, just like me.
 
My apologies to the moderators for starting that in the handgun forum, I had no Idea I was in that forum when I started the thread-by the time I realized it was too late-sorry I know thats gotta get old real quick.
 
I think this thread started in Handgunning forum becaue that's where the link to my site is. Sounds reasonable to me...

This thread wasn't about killing or loving anyone based on their membership of an organization. It was about response to specific actions. There was also a statement about the probability of such actions coming from members of a specific organization. THAT part we can argue about. DEA, etc. may or may not murder innocents on a regular basis, I have no way of knowing for sure. Therefore, it was agood idea to limit the hypothetical response to a specific, narrowly defined situation of "strangers attack without warning".
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by funinsun:

First I was suprised that nobody really flamed me.
[/quote}

We have long practice with folks who are truly annoying which you were not :)

Second I was suprised how nasty the attitude towards cops got.
Click to expand...

Not *quite* accurate. The attitude got nasty towards cops or any others who abuse their position up to and including committing murder with impunity. I, personally, have no beef with cops who are upright and honorable. I hope that the good cops would be equally outraged.

Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA

[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited June 15, 2000).]
 
Anybody who thinks that they can prevail in a shootout with a police team making an ebtry into their home is out of their minds. Your only reasonable response to a police entry is to freeze and do whatever you are told to do. THEN, if they are there in error, seek whatever legal recourse is available. Dying in your home serves no purpose in defense of anybody. Confront law enforcement officers with a weapon in your hand and you are asking to die. I am not saying that this is the way things should be but it is the way things are and you had better be prepared to face the consequences of your actions. This very problem of mistaken identity and the resulting chaos is why I am so opposed to "no knock" search warrants. The benfits of such searches do not justify the risks to everyone involved, citizen or cop. Stubby
 
Seems to me that prehaps some of you guys could better spend your time worring about what the milliom mom march , now controled by the bell foundation is doing to what is left of our RKBA.

I have read the post mmm & bell campain
that relates how congress men are listening to their concerns and calls for registration of all firearms and licensing of all gun owners and I have ot found just even one instance in which such registration and licensing has not soon lead to confiscation.

The MMM has installed posters of victims
of criminal misuse of firearms through out the halls of congress to remind our representatives of gun violence.

WHAT ARE WE DOING TO COUNTER THIS.

WE SIT HERE, discusing what ifs , when we should be devising a counter stratagy.
 
So stubby, when someone crashes through your door at 3AM with guns, how do you plan to ascertain if they are cops or your ordinary run of the mill amateur criminal home invaders...before you're dead, I mean?
 
I can not tell you I would do, but I can tell you I wouldn't do and that is reach for a gun before I have identified who is breaking into my home. If it is a "bad guy" then I will make every effort to defend myself and my family with whatever weapons are available to me. If it is the police, I will copperate completely with them and seek legal recourse through the Courts. This identification problem is why I am also opposed to police entry teams wearing their "ninja" outfits instead of a police uniform. A uniform makes identification much easier and although not fool proof, is a beter indication of identity than meer words yelled as the door comes down. This is a bad situation no matter what you do, I am just pointing out that meetings officers with a gun in your hand will likely cause your death. You may die in the other scenarios but you WILL die meeting officers with a gun in your hand as they force an entry into your home.
 
Actually, that isn't certain. If you are the one waiting for the intruder(s) to come your way you can see and usually hear them before they can see you. In your own home, you know which walls offer concealment but not cover and, just by firing off thrity rounds in their direction, might catch a few before they figure out where you are. That, btw, is why I prefer 30 round magazines to 10 round stripper clips...numerically superior foes can get you on the reload.

Long-term survival is still problematic...hell, very unlikely. However, it is important to inflict heavy casualties on the intruders as a favor to others...that would make the criminals in or out of uniform think a little before trying the same stunt again.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he
went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? [...] The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!"

Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
[/quote]

Moreover, I do not break laws. That means the intruders are either freelancers OR rogue cops, either of which ought to be stopped. They COULD also be well-meaning cops who are at my home by mistake...which makes them complete idiots unfit for the gene pool. They are responsible for double-checking the information on the basis of which they endanger other people's lives!
 
Cops are still generally worthless no matter what time of day it is and no matter what outfits (ninja suits included) they show up in. No one can survive an assault by cops if the cops choose to take you down. But some things are worth dying for and conversly some things are worth killing for and certainly almost everything is worth suing for. This will probably get this thread locked out as the general rule here is to avoid controversy and maybe it will go away. Very Clintonesque.
Very Liberal.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by legion3:
Cops are still generally worthless no matter what time of day it is and no matter what outfits (ninja suits included) they show up in. [/quote]

Oh, come on! Are you aware of how many pro-RKBA cops are on TFL? Are you aware of how many good people are in law enforcement who busy themselves with helping people as opposed to picking on them? My anti-police biases nonwithstanding, I had to admit that cops aren't all bad...far from it.

Further, please refer to the TFL rules on personal attacks...condemnation of actions is not the same as broad generalizations about an entire profession in all of its facets.

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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
>>I can not tell you I would do, but I can tell you I wouldn't do and that is reach for a gun before I have identified who is breaking into my home<<

Then you're a dead man. It was nice knowing you.
 
Oleg: Whom did I personally attack? Please note the word GENERALLY before worthless and after cops. I refer to the anti-gun cops and those who blindly follow orders but unfortunately their getting harder to weed out. I used to be a Federal cop. And I was generally worthless too. If serving line officers are shaken by anything said on this board they have more concerns than can be helped by my reading TFL rules.
 
What RikWriter said is right. R.I.P. unless you're lucky.

legion3, WTF? Calling cops "generally worthless" isn't a personal attack? Get a clue, man.
 
I am not going to waste any more time with this bafoonery. If any one took comments as personal to them then there just going to have to get over it or live with it. Cops never say anything negative about other cops, somebody's got to.
 
Let me bottom line it:

I'm scared of ANYBODY who kicks in my door in the middle of the night.

I generally like cops and almost always respect them, but the ones dressing like ninjas and doing the no knocks scare me as much as the criminals. Isn't that just wonderful? The cops have finally managed to make law abiding citizens fear them as much criminals. Oh boy.

As a note on identifying your target. I live alone. I own my house. I am the only one with a key. The doors and windows are secure enough that a "drunk neighbor" (or whatever) is not going to come busting in in the middle of the night accidently. Anybody in the house in the middle of the night without my knowledge doesn't belong there and is a threat. If the cops want to talk to me they can call or knock and I'll be the spirit of cooperation.
 
Okay... this is not cool.
Many TFL members including staff are LEOs or Former LEOs.
The value of this thread is questionable.
legion3 - check your email.

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You might laugh in the face of FEAR... but unless your armed, its a nervous, unconvincing, little laugh.
 
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