What is 9 x 23?

9

9mmLaw

New member
I was looking at the Winchester catalog and there was a listing for 9 x 23. I know what 9 x 18 and 9 x 19 is, but I have never heard of 9 x 23. Please excuse my ignorance.
 
It's a high pressure 9mm round. It's about the same overall length as the .38 Super, but it is closer to being a lengthened, strengthened 9x19 than a Super, because like the 9x19, the 9x23 is tapered and truly rimless. It's something of an orphan, as the pistol that Colt built for it didn't sell in large numbers, and the IPSC crowd seems to prefer the straight-walled (and rimless) .38 Super Comp.
 
It is a true .357 Magnum for semi automatic pistols and even puts the modern .357 Sig to shame. Cartridge started its development about 20 years ago for IPSC shooters looking for something better than 38 Super for competition. Has extra thick web and wall thickness to accommodate high pressure loading (46000 PSI).

Robert
 
9mmLaw. the 9x23mm Winchester cartridge was created for IPSC competition back in 1996. The case has enough capacity to qualify for Major Power Factor level competition with the appropriate bullet weight. But in doing so the chamber pressure becomes rather high. Winchester designed the 9x23mm case to have an unusually thick web section to prevent case-wall blow outs under these high pressure conditions. Here are some dimensions for the 9x23 Winchester cartridge:

Neck dia. - .380"
Base dia. - .390"
Rim dia. - .392"
Case length - .900"
Cartridge length - 1.245"
Primer - Large pistol (0.210")

Hope this helps!

Steve Mace
 
Steven The 9x23 and 9supercomp use the same primer as the 38 super does, small pistol, in are IPSC loads we us small rifle, because most IPSC loads are running at a higher pressure.
 
My cook book list the use of small rifle primer too. Also list a case length .910" and AOL's as high as 1.320 inches (average of 1.275-1.280").

Robert
 
The more things change...

It's just a warmed-over version of the venerable 9mm Steyr, and it's dimensional cousin, the 9mm Bergmann-Bayard. Just punched up to a higher pressure than the early 1900's vintage guns were capable of withstanding. I use new Winchester 9x23 brass to handload for my 1911 Steyr-Hahn, albeit downloaded to standard 9mm Luger pressures and velocities.
 
9mmLaw,

The 9 x 23 Win is a really great round. I have a 1991A Colt that was originally in 38 Super that I had converted by Dane Burns to 9 x 23 Win. It is the best shooting 1911/1991 that I own.

The 9 x 23 Win case is the reason that this round is so good. It is tapered, so feeding is very dependable. I have put well over 2500 rounds through mine without a single failure. As much as I love the other pistols I own, I can't say that about any other pistol I own, including the revolvers.

In addition to being tapered, the 9 x 23 Win case, at least as it is done by Winchester, is very strong (I beleive someone said 46,000 and I believe it!). I regularly shoot 125 gr slugs at 1400 to 1600 fps, and have pushed them higher on occasion. The Silvertips that Winchester sells are really fantastic rounds.

Dane Burns has information regarding the 9x23 Win on his web site, www.burnscustom.com. In addition, there is a forum where many of the gunsmiths are true believers in this round. It is www.pistolsmith.com.

Casey
 
Winchester didn't design the case, just manufactures it.
The capacity inside is less than the super (web like a 9mm)so with the same powder charge it produces more pressure. Most competition shooters making major use the small rifle primers when loading.
There is no semi rim so it feeds easier than the super. 1.250 is a good length for 1911 format guns in this cal. The back of the Chamber is .002 larger than the super. The front is .004 smaller.
Correctly fitting firing pins will make life eaiser. (not less than .002 smaller than the hole in your slide) There are many good gunsmith's that build guns in 9x23 for competition and carry.
Ti firing pins may cause problems also.
geo ><>
 
How are you testing that brass?
Is that a test for case bulge or primer pocket growth?

My trigger string testing: Starline 9x23 super comp case trimmed to 19mm
and loaded with AA#5 and a 115 gr JHP, 1.169" will blow out the case at
11.4 gr {kaboom in a P11]. An RP 9x19 case will also blow out at 11.4
gr.

I show no primer pocket growth at 11.4 gr.
Max book load is 7.0 gr.
I am having a hard time imagining that you are getting pocket growth in
a better supported chamber at still higher pressures, as 11.4 gr is way
too high a pressure to be practical with regular primers.
Clark
 
38 acp and later super has a semi rim
the case is .380 (ish) and the rim is .404 ish.
The gun was not tremendously accurate as it head spaced on the small hood with just the small rim section. (the firing pin would drive it into the chamber and the rim would push it off center, relying on the extractor to stop forward movment) Noted gun Writer George Nonte designed a chamber that head spaced on the case mouth. This helped accuracy tremendously. (the super is capable of under an inch at 50 yds)
the 23 does not have the semi rim and is easier to feed. With 10 rounds in a super single stack the first one is the hardest to get up the ramp.

hope this helps
geo ><>
 
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