gasmandave
New member
Has anyone used a 44 1851, 1860 colt, or 1858 Remington to shot anything large than rabbits, squirrels or paper? Say deer size? I think Walkers and dragoons would be okay but how about the others.
what have you shot?
- Thread starter gasmandave
- Start date
g.willikers
New member
The ballistics charts that I've seen show the guns will shoot about like a modern .38 special, maybe up to +P.
If that helps.
If that helps.
gasmandave
New member
Taking a deer with a 357 mag is fine. Max load for Remington 44 is 35grns of BP how close is that to a 357? .454 round ball is what about 145 grains?
gasmandave
New member
Well so much for that plan. I guess I'll still to my 50 Cal Hawken.
I remember reading an old account of some people in the early 1850's using the Colt's Holster Pistols ("Dragoon models" as we know them today) on grizzly bear from horseback (sounds hair-raising to me!) with good effect. I can only surmise these were stout-hearted men who had killed enough bears with single-shot guns to whom six shots might have seemed like more than enough.
Do not under any condition take this as a recommendation from me to do the same. I have long assumed that the men who did this must have had more experience with dangerous American critters than any man alive today could expect to put together in many decades of outdoor life.
Do not under any condition take this as a recommendation from me to do the same. I have long assumed that the men who did this must have had more experience with dangerous American critters than any man alive today could expect to put together in many decades of outdoor life.
gasmandave
New member
Thanks, and I seem to remember my Dad (passed away in '73) told me of a fellow who shot and killed a black bear with a 38 special, took 5 shots but killed it. I'm not interested in using a 44 c&b as a primary firearm but if the opportunity presented itself would out do the job. My son hunted with a 30-30 but a small buck walked out so he shot out with his 357. It was thru and thru and a clean kill. So I was just wondering it it would work.
Any way, Merry Christmas to all.
Any way, Merry Christmas to all.
freedom475
New member
Shot Placement!
It is all about shot placement!! I have taken many deer with my Remington. The ball has got to be placed right behind the shoulder.
It is well documented that the 44cals were used to kill countless buffalo and at least one Grizzly. General Custer is well known to have shot and killed one of his favorite horses on accident. While chasing and attempting to kill a buffalo from the horses back with a Cap&Ball revolver.
My load is a .457RB over 30gr 4ffff Black Powder...gives me 930 fps out of my Rem58.
It is all about shot placement!! I have taken many deer with my Remington. The ball has got to be placed right behind the shoulder.
It is well documented that the 44cals were used to kill countless buffalo and at least one Grizzly. General Custer is well known to have shot and killed one of his favorite horses on accident. While chasing and attempting to kill a buffalo from the horses back with a Cap&Ball revolver.
My load is a .457RB over 30gr 4ffff Black Powder...gives me 930 fps out of my Rem58.
Last edited:
freedom475
New member
Here is part of a 1800's Cap&Ball grizzly story,
The following story is from THE PRAIRIE TRAVELER, by Capt Randolph
B. Marcy, published in 1859, pages 165 & 166. It's a fascinating,
and eye-opening book, written by Capt Marcy in the late 1850's for
Americans headed west. Reprints are available through Amazon.com.
When reading this excerpt, remember that in 1858, the only revolvers
readily available were Colt's, and the only "Army" revolver
available at that time was the Colt Dragoon. It is not stated
whether round balls or conical bullets were fired, ("ball" being a
generic term in 1858 for any projectile, round or conical) but my
feeling is that the Navy Colts were usually fired with round balls,
at least until combustible cartridges became readily available
around 1860. The Dragoon, on the other hand, had been customarily
fired with the 219 grain conical bullet, using 28, 36, or 41 grains
of powder, the charges listed in Colt literature of that era. Both
the Walker Colt and the early Dragoons were sold with a single-
cavity conical bullet mould, which is why the conical became the
customary Dragoon projectile.
Enjoy a look back at 1858.
Greg Nelson
"Notwithstanding Colt's Army and Navy sized revolvers have been
in use for a long time by our army, officers are by no means of one
mind as to their relative merits for frontier service. The navy
pistol, being more light and portable, is more convenient for the
belt, but it is very questionable in my mind whether these qualities
counterbalance the advantages derived from the greater weight of
powder and lead that can be fired from the larger pistol, and the
consequent increased projectile force.
This point is illustrated by an incident which fell under my
own observation. In passing near the "Medicine-Bow Butte" during
the spring of 1858, I most unexpectedly encountered and fired at a
full grown grizzly bear; but, as my horse had become somewhat blown
by a previous gallop, his breathing so much disturbed my aim that I
missed the animal at the short distance of about fifty yards.
Fearful, that if I stopped to reload my rifle, the bear would make
his escape, I resolved to drive him back to the advanced guard of
our escort, which I could see approaching in the distance; this I
succeeded in doing, when several mounted men, armed with navy
revolvers, set off in pursuit. They approached within a few paces,
and discharged ten or twelve shots, the most of which entered the
animal, but he still kept on, and his progress did not seem
materially impeded by the wounds. After these men exhausted their
charges, another man rode up armed with the army revolver, and fired
two shots, which brought the stalwart beast ot the ground. Upon
skinning him and making an examination of the wounds, it was
discovered that none of the balls from the smaller pistols, after
passing through his thick and tough hide, penetrated deeper than
about an inch into the flesh, but that the two balls from the large
pistol had gone into the vitals and killed him. This test was to my
mind a decisive one as to the relative merits of the two arms for
frontier service, and I resolved thenceforth to carry the larger
one."
__________________
The following story is from THE PRAIRIE TRAVELER, by Capt Randolph
B. Marcy, published in 1859, pages 165 & 166. It's a fascinating,
and eye-opening book, written by Capt Marcy in the late 1850's for
Americans headed west. Reprints are available through Amazon.com.
When reading this excerpt, remember that in 1858, the only revolvers
readily available were Colt's, and the only "Army" revolver
available at that time was the Colt Dragoon. It is not stated
whether round balls or conical bullets were fired, ("ball" being a
generic term in 1858 for any projectile, round or conical) but my
feeling is that the Navy Colts were usually fired with round balls,
at least until combustible cartridges became readily available
around 1860. The Dragoon, on the other hand, had been customarily
fired with the 219 grain conical bullet, using 28, 36, or 41 grains
of powder, the charges listed in Colt literature of that era. Both
the Walker Colt and the early Dragoons were sold with a single-
cavity conical bullet mould, which is why the conical became the
customary Dragoon projectile.
Enjoy a look back at 1858.
Greg Nelson
"Notwithstanding Colt's Army and Navy sized revolvers have been
in use for a long time by our army, officers are by no means of one
mind as to their relative merits for frontier service. The navy
pistol, being more light and portable, is more convenient for the
belt, but it is very questionable in my mind whether these qualities
counterbalance the advantages derived from the greater weight of
powder and lead that can be fired from the larger pistol, and the
consequent increased projectile force.
This point is illustrated by an incident which fell under my
own observation. In passing near the "Medicine-Bow Butte" during
the spring of 1858, I most unexpectedly encountered and fired at a
full grown grizzly bear; but, as my horse had become somewhat blown
by a previous gallop, his breathing so much disturbed my aim that I
missed the animal at the short distance of about fifty yards.
Fearful, that if I stopped to reload my rifle, the bear would make
his escape, I resolved to drive him back to the advanced guard of
our escort, which I could see approaching in the distance; this I
succeeded in doing, when several mounted men, armed with navy
revolvers, set off in pursuit. They approached within a few paces,
and discharged ten or twelve shots, the most of which entered the
animal, but he still kept on, and his progress did not seem
materially impeded by the wounds. After these men exhausted their
charges, another man rode up armed with the army revolver, and fired
two shots, which brought the stalwart beast ot the ground. Upon
skinning him and making an examination of the wounds, it was
discovered that none of the balls from the smaller pistols, after
passing through his thick and tough hide, penetrated deeper than
about an inch into the flesh, but that the two balls from the large
pistol had gone into the vitals and killed him. This test was to my
mind a decisive one as to the relative merits of the two arms for
frontier service, and I resolved thenceforth to carry the larger
one."
__________________