I assume it was a S&W, right? Politics asside, if I was going to get a .40 S&W some day, and this round was made specifically for a S&W and the grip fit, I would get it. I heard the Glocks KB, but other than that, I know Sig's have a good rep, what about H&K, Ruger, and such. What are the track records of the other manufacturers .40 S&W semi-autos. (BTW I hope to be getting my first gun within 2 weeks----NIB Colt 1991A1, but forsee more guns in the future, that is why I am asking now).
What gun was the .40S&W originally made for?
- Thread starter boiler03
- Start date
Hk has a great following in the .40's I believe that the USP was originally designed around the .40
Don't believe too much hype about the glocks. though I have never owned one I know many who do and I think they are great guns.
Rugers don't get talked about much but are generally good guns
Beretta also makes a good gun as well as Sig
Your first choice of a 1911 is a good one enjoy
Don't believe too much hype about the glocks. though I have never owned one I know many who do and I think they are great guns.
Rugers don't get talked about much but are generally good guns
Beretta also makes a good gun as well as Sig
Your first choice of a 1911 is a good one enjoy
.40
So it was a S&W 4006? It feels bad looking for my next gun before I even have my first, but oh well. So the .40 is a "shrunk" 10mm (I have heard that, well it is true), but what was the whole thing with the Federal BI then? Oh yah, the Beretta 96, that looks pretty good too. Thanks for the replies.
So it was a S&W 4006? It feels bad looking for my next gun before I even have my first, but oh well. So the .40 is a "shrunk" 10mm (I have heard that, well it is true), but what was the whole thing with the Federal BI then? Oh yah, the Beretta 96, that looks pretty good too. Thanks for the replies.
A 10mm shrunk in a drier -- 
(hope the drier temperature isn't too high
Yes, the 10mm was developed because neither the .45 or 9mm were "enough" for the FBI which was running scared at the time. Then they found that a full house 10mm was too much -- both for the first guns ill-designed for it and for the many smaller, recoil-sensitive shooters in the FBI ranks. Too be honest though, the 10mm does take more effort to control for followup shots.
Eventually the "10mm lite", aka .40 S&W, was developed -- I think as a face saving measure by those who pushed the full-house 10mm. Personally I believe the .40 S&W is back where they started or at least it is now in the same ballpark as .45+P or really hot 9mm. It does allow more rounds in a magazine than .45 but not as many as a 9mm. As usual, it is a compromise in many ways.
You can shoot .40S&W in a gun designed for 10mm given some appropriate changes in components. You can also upgrade a .40S&W gun to 10mm but it takes more doing and really may be asking too much of a gun if it is a light frame to begin with.
In some respects the .40S&W is to the 10mm what the .44 spl is to the .44 magnum.
Here is a GREAT THREAD STARTED BY TAMARA on this subject.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55988
(hope the drier temperature isn't too high
Yes, the 10mm was developed because neither the .45 or 9mm were "enough" for the FBI which was running scared at the time. Then they found that a full house 10mm was too much -- both for the first guns ill-designed for it and for the many smaller, recoil-sensitive shooters in the FBI ranks. Too be honest though, the 10mm does take more effort to control for followup shots.
Eventually the "10mm lite", aka .40 S&W, was developed -- I think as a face saving measure by those who pushed the full-house 10mm. Personally I believe the .40 S&W is back where they started or at least it is now in the same ballpark as .45+P or really hot 9mm. It does allow more rounds in a magazine than .45 but not as many as a 9mm. As usual, it is a compromise in many ways.
You can shoot .40S&W in a gun designed for 10mm given some appropriate changes in components. You can also upgrade a .40S&W gun to 10mm but it takes more doing and really may be asking too much of a gun if it is a light frame to begin with.
In some respects the .40S&W is to the 10mm what the .44 spl is to the .44 magnum.
Here is a GREAT THREAD STARTED BY TAMARA on this subject.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55988
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boiler03:
Although a few of the custom 1911 45ACP’s that I have owned and shot were more accurate, my stock HK USP40c is surprisingly accurate. As it turned out, my most accurate 40S&W load for this compact HK is with 180 gr Gold Dots with a max load of Hodgdon Longshot, yielding less than ½” @ 25 yards, chrono’d at 1099 FPS (which by the way is a mid range 10mm load).
With this load, using the back of my hand against a post, this weapon will put every shot in the torso of man/woman (we must be politically correct here you know) target at 100 yards. Using D&J 180 lead TC medium loads, or 180 FMJ at near max, it became boring to shoot pop cans at 25 yards, unless it is rapid fire. So now we either shoot reject 12 ga shells at 25 yards, or pop cans at 35-50 yards.
I will also add that I found it more difficult to become proficient 40S&W in comparison with the 45ACP. It took me about 500 rounds and a lot of mental pep talks before my love affair with my HK USP40c began to develop. Now, every time I take out 7 of 10 pop cans at 50yards, I chortle while mentally patting myself on the back for having the patience and perspicacity not to sell this old POS after only 300 rounds.
Regards, Shoney
Although a few of the custom 1911 45ACP’s that I have owned and shot were more accurate, my stock HK USP40c is surprisingly accurate. As it turned out, my most accurate 40S&W load for this compact HK is with 180 gr Gold Dots with a max load of Hodgdon Longshot, yielding less than ½” @ 25 yards, chrono’d at 1099 FPS (which by the way is a mid range 10mm load).
With this load, using the back of my hand against a post, this weapon will put every shot in the torso of man/woman (we must be politically correct here you know) target at 100 yards. Using D&J 180 lead TC medium loads, or 180 FMJ at near max, it became boring to shoot pop cans at 25 yards, unless it is rapid fire. So now we either shoot reject 12 ga shells at 25 yards, or pop cans at 35-50 yards.
I will also add that I found it more difficult to become proficient 40S&W in comparison with the 45ACP. It took me about 500 rounds and a lot of mental pep talks before my love affair with my HK USP40c began to develop. Now, every time I take out 7 of 10 pop cans at 50yards, I chortle while mentally patting myself on the back for having the patience and perspicacity not to sell this old POS after only 300 rounds.
Regards, Shoney
riddleofsteel
New member
This is the gun that started it all, abeit this one is heavy on the custom side. I purchased this weapon just after the article in Shooting Times about the "new" .40 S&W cartridge. It is one of the first sold in my part of N.C.
Most of the customization was forced. This handgun was the jammingest, malfuctioning piece of crap I ever bought until Cylinder and Slide fixed it. While I was waiting the 9+ months to ship it off to Cylinder and Slide we used it for training on malfunction clearance as it would give some type of jam or malfunction at least twice in every 11 round mag.
Today it is one of the most reliable weapons I own and the most accurate.
Marko Kloos
Inactive
The .40 was designed for *&*'s own 4006, although Glock beat them to the market with the Glock 22/23, which was officially introduced before the 4006.
riddleofsteel
New member
Kinda like the story of S&W, Ruger and the .44 Mag. As I heard it, S&W had it's .44 Mag handgun ready to go when a Ruger employee pulled a hand full of empty .44 Mag Shells out of a trash pile. Ruger beat S&W to the market with it's .44 Mag Blackhawk by several months.
So the urban legend that the .40 was developed by the
IPSC/USPSA crew as the smallest diameter cartridge that
could 'make major' is just a myth? I was under the impression
it was developed for double-stack 1911s with a 16+1 capacity.
So WHY was the .40 marketed by Glock originally, they were
already making the 10mm Glock 20, which does the same
ballistics if down-loaded, why start up the trend? Espcecially
for a cartridge named after a competing company...
MikeCAN
IPSC/USPSA crew as the smallest diameter cartridge that
could 'make major' is just a myth? I was under the impression
it was developed for double-stack 1911s with a 16+1 capacity.
So WHY was the .40 marketed by Glock originally, they were
already making the 10mm Glock 20, which does the same
ballistics if down-loaded, why start up the trend? Espcecially
for a cartridge named after a competing company...
MikeCAN
riddleofsteel
New member
Like the .44 Mag the .40 S&W was a joint venture between S&W and an ammo company to fill a niche they saw in the market. In the case of the .40 S&W, the FBI was testing the 10MM and several other cartridges as possible sevice cartridges for field agents. The .45ACP was deemed acceptable but only in the +P lighter bullet configurations. It was felt that the day of the .45 had passed (ha ha). On the other hand the 9mm loads tested only passed at +P+ configurations.
The 10mm seemed able to do the job splitting the difference between the powers within the FBI that wanted large bore (.45) and those that wanted fast smaller bore high capacity (+P+ 9mm).
Plus the 10mm had the advantage of being available in full power loads approaching the .41 Mag in power and yet was able to be downloaded to 10mm lite or what we now know as .40 S&W levels with reduced recoil and still be very effective.
It did not take long to realize that full size 10mm shells or large frame hand guns were not needed for the downloaded 10mm loads. So S&W joined with Winchester to produce a 10mm or .40 caliber cartridge that would fit on a 9mm frame. The first time I read about it I knew it would be a success. I bought a S&W 4006 a month later and I have owned roughly a dozen firearms in that caliber since including a Ruger carbine.
The 10mm seemed able to do the job splitting the difference between the powers within the FBI that wanted large bore (.45) and those that wanted fast smaller bore high capacity (+P+ 9mm).
Plus the 10mm had the advantage of being available in full power loads approaching the .41 Mag in power and yet was able to be downloaded to 10mm lite or what we now know as .40 S&W levels with reduced recoil and still be very effective.
It did not take long to realize that full size 10mm shells or large frame hand guns were not needed for the downloaded 10mm loads. So S&W joined with Winchester to produce a 10mm or .40 caliber cartridge that would fit on a 9mm frame. The first time I read about it I knew it would be a success. I bought a S&W 4006 a month later and I have owned roughly a dozen firearms in that caliber since including a Ruger carbine.
I was very logical and smart of Glock to market the G22/23, even though they had the G20.
Law enforcement agencies tend to buy, or at least heavily consider during bidding, what the FBI buys. This is why so many departments went with a subsonic 147 grain 9mm. The shooting public in general buys what local law enforcement buys.
Glock was blitzing the law enforcement market. At that time they already had a good percentage. It was only good marketing to advertise what police agencies were going to demand.
Law enforcement agencies tend to buy, or at least heavily consider during bidding, what the FBI buys. This is why so many departments went with a subsonic 147 grain 9mm. The shooting public in general buys what local law enforcement buys.
Glock was blitzing the law enforcement market. At that time they already had a good percentage. It was only good marketing to advertise what police agencies were going to demand.