I'm in the process of enrolling in a local municipal police academy, and along with a pair of shineable black shoes and two pair of black socks, we're required to supply our own 9mm pistol. They were very clear about this one. It must be 9mm, semi-auto and double action, and if it has an exposed hammer then it must have a manual decocking lever. What are some good pistols to check out? I intend to buy a used one, and I've never owned a 9mm before, so I'm not sure what to expect as far as price and features. Judging by popular opinion around here, 9mm's main (only?) advantage is the higher capacity available, so should I just get a big Glock with 18-round mags, or should I look for some other attributes? For what it's worth, my hands are very large.
What gun for a police cadet?
- Thread starter PaladinVC
- Start date
Well, Glock is always a good choice, if you can abide the trigger. I'd recommend going to the range and renting a LOT of guns. As long as you can shoot it well and the thing is reliable, it'll work for you.
I personally would avoid S&W semi-autos (they are ergonomically challenged). Glocks are solid choices for LEOs, as are Sigs and Berettas.
Mike
I personally would avoid S&W semi-autos (they are ergonomically challenged). Glocks are solid choices for LEOs, as are Sigs and Berettas.
Mike
Blue Duck357
New member
Better check with them to see if they consider the Glock to be double action or not. It's really somewhere between double and single action.
Aside from that I'd suggest you get a Ruger. I know there are better guns out there (but also many worse that cost much more).
My thinking is that you don't know what your eventual department will issue (if anything) or even if any 9mm will be acceptable to them, so why throw down a lot of money for something that may be of no use to you when you get out of the academy. The academy will also likely be a great place to try out the different systems Glock, SIG, HK, that other students may have purchased. In short save your money till you find out what you need to buy or will be issued.
Aside from that I'd suggest you get a Ruger. I know there are better guns out there (but also many worse that cost much more).
My thinking is that you don't know what your eventual department will issue (if anything) or even if any 9mm will be acceptable to them, so why throw down a lot of money for something that may be of no use to you when you get out of the academy. The academy will also likely be a great place to try out the different systems Glock, SIG, HK, that other students may have purchased. In short save your money till you find out what you need to buy or will be issued.
Nobody can tell you which gun to buy. At the very least you need to hold all the different ones in your hand and see which fits you best. Ideally, you should shoot them and see which you like best. Now you say you are considering the Glock, but you said that the gun must be double action. The Glock is not double action. You may want to clarify their interpretation of double action before you fork out the dough. I suggest you look at the Glock 17 and the Sig P226 for starters. After that, I say look at the S&W 5906. Next on my list would be H&K USP9. After that consider Beretta 92 series and Ruger P series. I have not owned either of the last two so I can't recommend a specific model. All six of these have a proven track record in law enforcement use. I do suggest the full-size models for uniform duty use, especially if you have large hands. Again, try them all and decide for yourself. Do not let anybody talk you into one. Contrary to opinionated beliefs..any of the guns I mentioned will serve you well.
A lot depends on what makes you comfortable. If you get a Glock, as well as any other weapon inquire about whether or not you would be eligible for LEO magazines for your weapon. Also check to see if you get a LEO discount from your dealer. It will save you some bucks.
Stick with the bigger brand names, Glock, SIG, HK and others and you won't go wrong. Go to a store and handle a few, and if possible rent a couple to shoot.
Stay away from compensated models. They can be a pain with when you qualify for low light conditions. Also get to know your weapon way before you start. Weapons with controls in the same area can be a bit tricky. I've found myself hitting the decocker instead of the slide release more than once on a SIG.
Expect to pay anywhere from $400-$600 for a good quality weapon.
Good SHooting
RED
Stick with the bigger brand names, Glock, SIG, HK and others and you won't go wrong. Go to a store and handle a few, and if possible rent a couple to shoot.
Stay away from compensated models. They can be a pain with when you qualify for low light conditions. Also get to know your weapon way before you start. Weapons with controls in the same area can be a bit tricky. I've found myself hitting the decocker instead of the slide release more than once on a SIG.
Expect to pay anywhere from $400-$600 for a good quality weapon.
Good SHooting
RED
Amen. My BHP has a frame mounted sweep-down-to-fire safety, as JMB intended. My duty 4506 has a sweep-down-to decock-and-make-safe safety. What was I doing during live fire exercises for the first few days? Engaging the safety and trying to shoot.
Second the idea of figuring out what your prospective PD will issue or allow. Might as well buy something you can use with them, or at least something that functions the same way.
Mike
Mike Irwin
Staff
For me, in a similar situation, there would be only two choices -- Sig or Beretta.
I have a couple suggestions.
First, I have to echo part of blue duck's advice. Go with something good (in case you stick with it) but cheap (in case you get issued something after training or decide you want something different after trying some of your classmates' guns).
The Ruger P89 is a great gun (I owned one so I can attest to this). It is very sturdy (you could probably run over it with a tank). It is accurate. It is reliable (I had probably 2000-3000 rounds, certainly 1000-3000, through mine and I never had one FTF or FTE). Best of all it isn't overly expensive (it will probably be in the low to mid $400's, though it may be under $400 in many areas). It is aluminum alloy so it isn't too heavy but it is quite strong. The high caps hold 15 rounds.
The CZ 75 is a great gun (only know from reputation, I don't own one YET). They seem to have all the advantages of the Rugers plus better fit and finish for just a little more money (we're talking a $20-40 difference usually). The standard model is DA but its safety does not work as a decocker so you'd need the CZ 75 BD Police (decocker), CZ 75 DAO (double action only, of course), or CZ 75 D Compact (decocker). The full sized models are capable of holding 15 rounds, I think the compact is 13 (though I'm not 100% sure of that).
The Taurus PT92 is a great gun at a good price. Many people disparage Taurus products but their revolvers and STEEL FRAMED autos are great (I have owned a revolver, only know the steel framed autos on reputation and word of mouth, though I'm probably getting a PT911 by summer, hopefully by spring- I do put my money where my mouth is). This is designed after the Beretta 92 with some improved features and a much lower price. The safety is moved off the slide and put on the frame (more natural and quicker for most people) and the safety works as BOTH a safety (for cocked and locked carry for a SA first shot) AND a decocker (for your politically correct police dept). I think the high caps are 17 rounds (I could be wrong). Best part- the price is in the $400's (mid to high usually).
Also, the Taurus PT911 if it isn't too small. All the advantages of the PT92 (though it isn't a 'clone' of the Beretta) in a smaller and lighter package. No high caps available for civilians (no pre-ban mags) but I don't know about law enforcement. This gun should be found in the low $400's
A good self-defense load in 9mm is quite effective so there is nothing wrong with it. Of course it isn't a .45. In a full-sized service pistol its main advantage is capacity as you mentioned. Also, many 9mm pistols seem to be more reliable than .45s.
The other big advantage can be in size and weight. If you look at the rounds side by side there is a big difference in the size of the 9mm v. the .45 so you can get a much smaller and lighter pistol in 9mm. For example, the Taurus PT911 is nearly a service pistol in size yet comparatively it is very small and thin and is still capable of holding 10 rounds. Many manufacturers make compact and even pocket sized 9mm pistols, some of which hold 10 full rounds.
First, I have to echo part of blue duck's advice. Go with something good (in case you stick with it) but cheap (in case you get issued something after training or decide you want something different after trying some of your classmates' guns).
The Ruger P89 is a great gun (I owned one so I can attest to this). It is very sturdy (you could probably run over it with a tank). It is accurate. It is reliable (I had probably 2000-3000 rounds, certainly 1000-3000, through mine and I never had one FTF or FTE). Best of all it isn't overly expensive (it will probably be in the low to mid $400's, though it may be under $400 in many areas). It is aluminum alloy so it isn't too heavy but it is quite strong. The high caps hold 15 rounds.
The CZ 75 is a great gun (only know from reputation, I don't own one YET). They seem to have all the advantages of the Rugers plus better fit and finish for just a little more money (we're talking a $20-40 difference usually). The standard model is DA but its safety does not work as a decocker so you'd need the CZ 75 BD Police (decocker), CZ 75 DAO (double action only, of course), or CZ 75 D Compact (decocker). The full sized models are capable of holding 15 rounds, I think the compact is 13 (though I'm not 100% sure of that).
The Taurus PT92 is a great gun at a good price. Many people disparage Taurus products but their revolvers and STEEL FRAMED autos are great (I have owned a revolver, only know the steel framed autos on reputation and word of mouth, though I'm probably getting a PT911 by summer, hopefully by spring- I do put my money where my mouth is). This is designed after the Beretta 92 with some improved features and a much lower price. The safety is moved off the slide and put on the frame (more natural and quicker for most people) and the safety works as BOTH a safety (for cocked and locked carry for a SA first shot) AND a decocker (for your politically correct police dept). I think the high caps are 17 rounds (I could be wrong). Best part- the price is in the $400's (mid to high usually).
Also, the Taurus PT911 if it isn't too small. All the advantages of the PT92 (though it isn't a 'clone' of the Beretta) in a smaller and lighter package. No high caps available for civilians (no pre-ban mags) but I don't know about law enforcement. This gun should be found in the low $400's
A good self-defense load in 9mm is quite effective so there is nothing wrong with it. Of course it isn't a .45. In a full-sized service pistol its main advantage is capacity as you mentioned. Also, many 9mm pistols seem to be more reliable than .45s.
The other big advantage can be in size and weight. If you look at the rounds side by side there is a big difference in the size of the 9mm v. the .45 so you can get a much smaller and lighter pistol in 9mm. For example, the Taurus PT911 is nearly a service pistol in size yet comparatively it is very small and thin and is still capable of holding 10 rounds. Many manufacturers make compact and even pocket sized 9mm pistols, some of which hold 10 full rounds.
ReverendHobo
New member
I dislike decockers so much (inconsistent trigger pull between the first and the followup shots), that if they allow Glock as "double action", I would go with Glock. If not, I will support SpazzTrap, chaim, and Kermit in their recommendation of CZ 75 BD Police. It is an inexpensive, all-steel, comfortable to hold, reliable, and accurate handgun.
If allowed by the Glock 17. The biggest advantage is that if you need to you can sell it back for what you paid for it. If not the sigs are my personal favorite for out of box accuracy but they are pricey. I have a taurus pt-99 that functions and shoots great. But glock would definately be my first choice.
David Scott
New member
I say find out what the department issues, and get a copy of that.
trapshooter
Moderator
I'd go with the Sig. As for confusing the decocker with the slide release, I guess I'd practice more, but if that didn't work, I'd get something else, too.
I like the Sig because of it's accuracy out of the box, and the exposed hammer, which I demand in a pistol. That demand is personal preference, I grant, but there is no doubt about a weapon with an exposed hammer being 'cocked' and ready in that respect for SA fire. Unmodified accuracy is a big plus, as many departments frown on 'highly' (relative term) modified duty guns. Plus, warranties dissolve quickly in the presence of 'modifications'.
Are Sigs pricey? Compared to what? Besides, you should qualify for the (not so) secret discount, if any, it never hurts to ask.
Also, the price of the weapon is one thing. A good holster, mag pouches, etc., are add ons but must-haves, as are spare mags (get as many as you can afford). Don't cheap out on the leather, unless you want to buy it twice.
I like the Sig because of it's accuracy out of the box, and the exposed hammer, which I demand in a pistol. That demand is personal preference, I grant, but there is no doubt about a weapon with an exposed hammer being 'cocked' and ready in that respect for SA fire. Unmodified accuracy is a big plus, as many departments frown on 'highly' (relative term) modified duty guns. Plus, warranties dissolve quickly in the presence of 'modifications'.
Are Sigs pricey? Compared to what? Besides, you should qualify for the (not so) secret discount, if any, it never hurts to ask.
Also, the price of the weapon is one thing. A good holster, mag pouches, etc., are add ons but must-haves, as are spare mags (get as many as you can afford). Don't cheap out on the leather, unless you want to buy it twice.
I'd echo looking at both the Sig and Glock. While I like the fact that the Glock only has one trigger pull, I hate the trigger pull it has and am not very accurate with it.
At the last Basic Pistol class that I taught, 3 of my 4 students shot remarkably better with the Sig P239 and with the Glock 17 (and yes, I had them decock the P239 every other shot).
If possible, find a range that rents guns and spend some time with them. What works for me might not work for you.
M1911
At the last Basic Pistol class that I taught, 3 of my 4 students shot remarkably better with the Sig P239 and with the Glock 17 (and yes, I had them decock the P239 every other shot).
If possible, find a range that rents guns and spend some time with them. What works for me might not work for you.
M1911
Thanks for all your help. I'll look into all of these suggestions today when I head out to my local trading post. Glock was actually listed by the academy as one of the examples of acceptable manufacturers, so I know it'll be okay. I'm seeing a lot of suggestions for the Glock 17 and the CZ 75 in various incarnations, so I'll keep my eyes peeled for those two. I've had an opportunity to hold both a Beretta M9 and a Taurus PT92, and I prefer the safety on the frame, so if it comes to that, I think I'll go with the Taurus. You guys have been characteristically informative, and I'm glad that I knew about TFL, so I could get this advice. Thanks again!
My choice for a duty gun in 9mm would be a BHP, but since it's made to work properly, it's disallowed by the pinheads in power. Since Glocks are apparently allowed, my choice for a "DA" duty gun would be the Glock 34. It's just a tad longer than the G17, so you get a longer sight radius and alightly more velocity. It has a slightly extended magazine release and comes from the factory with the 3.5 lb trigger connector. (Shhh . . . bureaucrats like heavy triggers. If they don't ask, don't volunteer that you have a better gun!)